Help with old uni debt please

[oojakapipi]

Hi,

I was referred to this site by a very helpful member of moneysavingexpert I have a long story that I will try and keep as short as possible.

My old uni contacted me in Oct 2006 on my Dads phone (when I was visiting) saying that I owed them tuition fees from my 3rd year (which I didn't attend) Oct 2003.

I had attended the college to sign the registry, however my cheque bounced and I was having financial difficulty at the time, so as I hadn't paid for the course didn't attend my final year.

I had been in contact with the uni debt collection dept in Feb 2005 when I settled an old library debt, and there was no mention from them at the time about the tuition fees.

Fast forward to Oct 2006, I told them (on the phone) I didn't believe I owed money for fees for a course I didn't attend.

Their solicitors have now filed court action against me, their claim was filed on 3-4-07, I sought legal advise and was told that I would have to admit the debt as I signed a contract (the registration papers), so I filled in the court papers admitting the debt and offering £1 per month. I sent these to the solicitors (copied letter to uni debt collection dept) asking them to stop the court action against me as I am currently unemployed and applying for jobs with financial institutions who will not employ me if I have a ccj (all true). They received this letter signed-for on 17-4-07.

I then got a really nasty letter back from uni debt collection dept saying that what I offered was not enough (even though I sent income/expenditure breakdown which clearly shows that I am in monthly deficit at the moment) and that they want £30 per month and they have instructed their solicitors to continue with court action.

I sent a letter to the Head of College 24-4-07 complaining about this whole thing and sent copies of the correspondence, I havn't heard back yet.

The thing is I think I have been wrongly advised to admit the debt as helpful person on MSE told me they havn't provided a copy of the contract, all this happened before I found any of these sites and I am very green as I have never been in trouble that results in court action before.

I am really worried about all this especially since my future employment prospects are threatened, and worried about losing my home as I have a mortgage and can't get housing benefit at moment, and have been told that the uni can apply to have the (supposed) debt attatched to my property.

Thanks for reading.

[tomterm8]

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[oojakapipi]

Hi again tomterm8:)

 

1. Correct

 

2. No, i offered the £1 when they sent me the court papers as was advised to admit the debt and make the offer based on my current (lack of) income.

 

3. No, I havn't offered them anything else, was advised to wait for judgement.

 

4. They wrote back after I offered £1 saying they were continuing with court action.

 

5. No, never formally disputed, disputed over the phone with uni collections dept, legel advisor said I had to admit the debt. In the letter of complaint to the Head of College I stated that I don't beleive that I should be charged fees for tuition that I did not take, I didn't get any help with this letter, but can post content (excluding their personal details) if it helps.

 

6. Yes, I have been offered a temporary job ( 8 weeks part time so only helps income a bit) which would not be affected by action, the interview in 2 weeks for a permenant position which I REALLY want would not employ me if I have a ccj.

 

Thanks again for all your help tomterm8

[tomterm8]

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[Layla_ck]

Did you sign anything, inform anyone in writing of you leaving the course before December of your third year?

[tomterm8]

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[oojakapipi]

Can't afford to offer more, I am £300 per month in deficit with essential payments (mortgage, utilities, food), even with the temping job will still be (only just) in deficit.

 

I didn't put anything in writing when I left, I went in and spoke to my tutor, as far as I can remember they didn't ask for it in writing. I naively thought that as I didn't attend my 3rd year I didn't owe money.

 

The person who gave me the legal advise told me that the Judge would laugh my £1 offer out of court as it is not realistic as it is clear that I can't even afford that, she said that the Judge would award the uni the full amount, that the uni would then do searches to find what assets I have (which I will be charged for), then get the debt attatched to my property.

[oojakapipi]

Hi tomterm8,

 

I was posting the above when you posted the letter, I cannot even afford £5 per week, do you think they will accept less than that?

[tomterm8]

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[oojakapipi]

Sorry to be a bit thick but what is a stay of judgement, and how does it work?

 

Nobody has ever mentioned this to me before, rubbish legal advisor said all I could do was admit debt and wait for judgement. I asked if it was worth defending the claim and going to the court to fight it, she said no, it would just cost me more in the long run as Judge is not interested in specifics of situation, just wether I signed the contract or not.

 

There is also no mention of this on the court letter, I did what it says under the title 'if you agree with the claim and are asking for time to pay' and sent my admission form to the solicitors with the offer of £1 per month.

 

What happens if I send the letter and ask the court for a stay and they refuse the offer again?

 

Thanks for all your help with this!

[tomterm8]

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[oojakapipi]

Thanks again for all your help,

 

Will do the letter and contact the court first thing monday. Have just been searching hmcourt website and havn't found any info re: how much time there is between me sending admission and them taking me to court, will keep looking.

[Zimmie]

Ooja, I think a call to Nationaldebtline might help you...just search for them through Google.

From what I've found out via trying to sort my own problems, if you have made a reasonable offer, taking into account your current financial circumstances, the Uni debt collection rejected it...if it does go to court it could be viewed that they have acted unreasonably. I note that your letter of complaint to Head of College has been ignored also!

 

I had a similar situation with a DCA who wouldn't accept what I could afford...so when they threatened court, I put this as part of a letter to them:

 

The commencement of legal proceedings under such circumstances could be counter to the 'Overriding Objectives' of the Civil Procedure Rules. You will be aware that 'Overriding Objectives' underpin everything the court does. Moreover, paragraph 4 of the Protocols Practice Direction states that in cases not covered by approved pre-action protocols, the court will expect the parties 'to act reasonably...in trying to avoid the necessity for the start of proceedings.'

I would suggest that your refusal to accept my offer could be viewved as unreasonable and I would ask the court to consider this matter with reference to the 'Overriding Objectives.'

 

The above might give you some food for thought, and on the whole even if a CCJ is granted judges don't order you to pay more than you can...but I do understand your reasons for wanting to avoid a CCJ. Infact it seems that by pursuing one the Uni debt collection dept would be shooting themselves in the foot! If you can't get that job..they can't get any money!

 

I haven't a clue as to whether Uni tuition fees come under the Consumer Credit Act...I went to Uni in the days when students weren't crippled by massive debts in order to get a higher education. Someone might know or you might be able to find out on some government website. I guess what I'm trying to say is...I don't know if its worth sending a CCA request.

 

Also may be worth finding out if your local CAB has a free legal advisor who may offer some valuable assistance in defending a CCJ. You need to mention that you were intimidated & harassed into admitting the debt...as from what I've read you didn't think you had one.

 

Good luck, Zim.

[oojakapipi]

Hi Zimmie,

 

Thanks for the post, I am in touch with National Debtline already and think I will call them on monday before I do anything else re: the fact that the uni rejected my offer.

 

The legal advise I was given was by a company I was referred to through the CAB!

 

When I made the £1 offer to the uni, I explained about the ccj being detrimental to my future employment, they don't give a stuff! The letter they sent back was very aggressive.

 

The letter of complaint I sent to the Head of College was only a few days ago, so am still hoping to get some sort of reply. I sent the letter off my own back and I'm not sure I am complaining to the right person. Has anyone else had this kind of problem before?

[tomterm8]

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[oojakapipi]

Thanks again tomterm8!!!!!!!!

[CourseRep]

Hello; most higher education institutions will offer pro-rata refunds if someone has paid the fees and wants to leave. Therefore if you have registered and then left, you should not be pursued for a full amount. Speak to your Student Union advice centre to find out what is the position on the pro-rata refunds.

Secondly, have you been assesed for any financial support towards your fees? Has this support been paid to your uni? Uni will only get the fee grants paid out for those still on register on 1st of December. You need to make sure that this was a case when you registered as I don't know how far this "1st of December" set up goes.

Next; unless you have formally withdrawn, the uni would have had you on the register. The fact that your cheque bounced is not very relevant because students usually are given few chances to pay their fees.

 

You need to gather the above info before your court appearance or if you wish to give an informed reply to the solicitors.

 

Every SU has an advice centre. The quality of SU advice centres is usually superb. The only snag you can hit is that you are no longer registered with this uni and the advice centres usually offer assistance to registered students. Therefore you need to either convince them that you are still entitled to their help by virtue of the issue (which arose when you were a student) or simply flatter and plead and bring flowers for the manager!

Good Luck!

[Zimmie]

Community Legal Service Direct

 

Ooja, sorry the legal advice you got was a bit naff!

 

Have a look on above link, you might find a better legal advisor.

 

 

Do a site search for 'Vexatious Litigation'..seems to tie in with 'Overriding Objectives'.

 

 

Again good luck

[oojakapipi]

Hi CourseRep,

 

Yes, the pro-rata refund is something I had thought happened, I also remember that my uni would allow students to pay their fees in instalments, paying for the first term in September, then the rest in January my friend did this. She was warned that if she couldn't pay the second instalment in Jan she would be kicked off the course, nobody said that she would still have to pay for the rest of the course anyway. I would love to see a copy of this instalment agreement.

 

I havn't been assessed for financial support for fees, don't know anything about this. The court papers say that the uni are claiming from 24-10-03 which is the date I am assuming they are saying that I ended the course.

 

I will try the SU, but as I have been told by legal advisor, they cannot help me as I am no longer a student.

 

I am really frustrated and confused by the fact that in Feb 2005, when I dealt with the library debt, they didn't tell me about these fees that would have been due 18 months earlier, someone told me that they have probably had an audit which brought it to their attention.

 

I feel such a fool for admitting the debt, I was trying to follow the best and quickest route to stop the court action. I wish there was some way of finding out if they can legally get away with charging people for services they havn't used. As Zimmie pointed out, it is difficult to know if they come under the CCA.

[tomterm8]

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[oojakapipi]

tomterm8,

 

"grr... is there any way you can change your plea from admit, to admit in part?"

 

OH, how I wish I could find that out!

 

Kicking myself (gently) for letting them bully me.

[tomterm8]

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[oojakapipi]

Unfortunatly, I filled the forms in by hand and signed them......

 

Do you think I could put in a plea that I have a personality disorder that means I sign everything that is put in front of me even if I don't use the service/admit the claim? Its called 'panic and sign disorder'

[tomterm8]

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[Zimmie]

Don't forget though the stress you were under due to being hounded by the collections dept....and the lack of good legal advice.