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    • sorry she is a private individual, the cars are parking on her land. she can clamp the cars. only firms were outlawed from doing it bazza. thats what the victims of people dumping cars on their drives near airports did and they didn't not get prosecuted.    
    • The DVLA keeps two records of you. One as a driver and one for your car. If they differ you might find out in around a month when they will send you a reminder as well as to your other half for their car. If you receive nothing then you can be fairly sure that you were tailgating though wouldn't explain why they didn't pick up your car on one of drive past their cameras. However even if you do get a PCN later then your situation will not change. The current PCN does not comply with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 Schedule 4 which is the main law that covers private parking. It doesn't comply for two reasons. 1. Section 9 [2][a] states  (2)The notice must— (a)specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates; The PCN states 47 minutes which are the arrival and departure times not the time you were actually parked. if you subtract the time you took to drive from the entrance. look for a parking place  park in it perhaps having to manoeuvre a couple of times to fit within the lines and unload the children reloading the children getting seat belts on  driving to the exit stopping for cars pedestrians on the way you may well find that the actual time you were parked was quite likely to be around ten minutes over the required time.  Motorists are allowed a MINIMUM of ten minutes Grace period [something that the rogues in the parking industry conveniently forget-the word minimum] . So it could be that you did not overstay. 2] Sectio9 [2][f]  (ii)the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver, the creditor will (if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met) have the right to recover from the keeper so much of that amount as remains unpaid; Your PCN does not include the words in brackets and in 2a the Act included the word "must". Another fail. What those failures mean is that MET cannot transfer the liability to pay the charge from the driver to the keeper. Only the driver is now liable which is why we recommend our members not to appeal. It is so easy to reveal who was driving by saying "when I parked the car" than "when the driver parked the car".  As long as they don't know who was driving they have little chance of winning in court. This is partly because Courts do not accept that the driver and the keeper are the same person. And because anyone with a valid motor insurance policy is able to drive your cars. It is a shame that you are too far away to get photos of the car park signage. It is often poor and quite often the parking rogues lose in Court on their poor signage alone. I hope hat you can now relax and not panic about the PCN. You will receive many letters from Met, their unregulated debt collectors and sixth rate solicitors threatening you with ever higher amounts of money. The poor dears have never read the Act which states quite clearly that the maximum sum that can be charged is the amount on the signs. The Act has only been in force for 12 years so it may take a  few more years for the penny to drop.  You can safely ignore everything they send you unless or until they send you a Letter of Claim. Just come back to us if they do send one of those love letters to you and we will advise on a snotty letter to send them. In the meantime go on and enjoy your life. Continue reading other threads and if you do get any worrying letters let us know. 
    • Hopefully the ANPR cameras didn't pick up the two vehicles, but I don't think you're out of the woods just yet. MET's "work" consists of sending out hundreds of these invoices every week so yours might be a few days behind your partner's. There is also the matter of Royal Mail.  I once sold two second-hand books to someone on eBay.  Weirdly the cost of sending them separately was less than the cost of sending them in one parcel.  So to save a few bob I sent them seperately.  One turned up the next day.  One arrived after four days.  They were  sent from the same post office at the same time! But let's hope I'm being too pessimistic. Please update us of any developments.
    • New version after LFI's superb analysis of the contract. Sorry, but you need to redo the numbering of the paras and of the exhibits in the right order after all the damage I've caused! Defendant's WS - version 4.pdf
    • Hi  no nothing yet. Hope it stays that way 😬
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Hubby's potential Insolvency / bankruptcy


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Gingerheid, thank you so much for the advice. Ironically when hubby returns to work (he has just had an op) this car would be the tool of his trade also.

 

Ok... this is actually yet another fantastic key to the whole thing; your strongest one.

 

You can additionally tell them (Or better still your husband if he is well enough) that even in the event they do not accept the car is yours, he will be better very soon (as I'm sure and hope he will be), that he will be looking for work and has a reasonable chance of finding it (which I'm sure he has), but that he will not have a reasonable chance of finding work unless he has use of a motor car (which from what you say he wouldn't, but you need to explain why).

 

Perhaps a few details to confirm this for them, and that should then be pretty much the end of the story.

 

It's easier if it turns out the car is actually yours though; that obviously removes the value limit.

 

All the best, and all the best for hubby's recovery from the op!

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Number of times I've asked 1st Credit for information that I stil haven't recieved... 55 as at 02/05/07 :!:

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Hey Gizmo, nice to see you back - hope you had a restful break and that you are ok. The only down side about the banks was that hubby was unable to complete his claim for his personal bank charges, and I spent hours (and £!!) getting it through to court, however once the BR was granted, the OR took this case over and wasnt interested in chasing the money!!! Tau - bear this in mind if you are in the middle of claiming bank charges. And of course you can pop in for tea, you have to bring the biccies though! With regard to your cars, I agree that they would both fall under the £2k mark under each individual case, however the bike could be a further asset maybe? (vision of the official receiver zooming off on a bike into the sunset)

Gingerhead, thank you for your support, and logical approach. Hubby did tell the Official Receiver that he would need this car following his recovery from his operation, however they started to argue and say that you would not need such a new car (its 3 years old this year) and that a lower value car would be ok, ...in their opinion. We have not received anything in writing yet so I am unable to clarify where the OR sees this at the moment, but I am in battling mood! Have gone from upset to anger to resolution to win!!!!

Blimey, hope one of my DCAs phone tonight, boy am I in the mood for them!!! :D

Will keep you posted and thank you all for keeping me sane!

Red

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If the situation remains that it's his car this is a problem you can't get over; the value limit is pretty set in stone and it seems clear they'd make something from selling it and giving you £2k.

 

If you can even make the half the car yours in a legal manner, then of course this is edging well down the road of more trouble than it's worth for them.

Number of times I've asked 1st Credit for information that I stil haven't recieved... 55 as at 02/05/07 :!:

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hi again every one especially Gingerheid, sorry have not been ignoring you, just been dealing with this situation. I sent a letter myself to the OR, stating that I had been paying the HP on the car, and that therefore I have an interest in it, all being that the car is in my husband's name.

The OR did write through and said that his interest was for the creditors, and that the £2k limit was non-movebale, however if I could provide proof of payments then he would look into it further.

So its not all doom and gloom (yet!).

I am collating the paperwork to him ready to post this week.

Red

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Also, Lloyds have just written through and demanding that I pay them back ALL of the joint loan, take it that I (not being BR) am liable for all of this?

And the OD on the joint account?

Where do I stand about bank charges?

Any help appreciated,

thanks

Red

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Hi red

This was one of the reasons that both myself and the wife decided to file for BR, as we have a couple of joint loans together. They must come to about 10k between them, so it wasnt practical for just myself to do it as we would still have had the loan companies coming after swmbo for the outstanding amounts.

 

It might be worth firing off a request for the CCA that Lloyds should have for the loan. Or hopefully not have.

Sorry to hear of this extra problem, but Im sure we can get over it.

Not too sure how you would stand with reclaiming the bank charges or how the OR would see it. He may want half of any proceeds for your hubbies half to pay off the creditors. As I say Im not to sure on this.

 

Anyway have a big HUG to be going on with.

Tip us a wink on my scales if you think I may have helped at all;)

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Thank you Tau, you still have time for me, even though you have a big (nice?) week ahead of you!!!

Think that I already have sent a CCA request at the beginning of the year to which Lloyds replied. But not complied with the SAR request, so could be an angle to argue in the meantime!

I knew that this was not going to be plain sailing.....

Still fighting though!

Red

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Tuesdays the day. Getting a bit apprehensive now. Filling in the forms today to take with us on Tuesday. Loads of questions about what and how much you can claim for, all sorts of stuff going through my head.

What if the Judge says no, Cost a fortune for all those CCA requests ;) and SARs. Might have One of Diskmandaves cheeky vimto's tonight:)

Tip us a wink on my scales if you think I may have helped at all;)

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Hi Red

Yep it all went well, the Judge was very picky over my forms:confused: she asked why I was sill paying insurance on my bike when I had sold it. So I said if you look at motor vehicles I own, you will see one listed there:rolleyes: Dont think that went down to well!!! She also picked up on a pension and asked me how much it was worth and I said I hadnt a clue, that got a dagger like look as well. Dont think she liked me much :Cry:

She was OK with the wife though.

Had a brief chat with the OR on the phone, who was very nice. She called us at home a bit later and said that we could keep both cars:D but my bike has to go:-| but someone can by the beneficial interest in it for me, so I can get to keep it.

We have to go for an interview on the 16th of this month, just to run through the SOA and expenses plus my business affairs.

All in all not a bad day, all debts gone all 40k's worth so I am a fairly happy bunny.

We can also keep our basic bank account with the Co-op and also one with the Abbey as niether were creditors.

The court forms were a nightmare to fill in though, talk about the ins and outs of a ducks bum, how many times do you have to fill in account numbers and such, take half of them away and it would save a bleedin rain forest. 20 pages of questions on both sides as well:-o

 

Oh well cant be a company director for a while now, do I care, err nope. My credit file was sh1te before hand so this wont make much difference to it now. Do I want another credit card, not fookin likely.

 

Will be able to sleep better tonight for the fist time in a long while, now wheres me Vimto and Vodka.

Tip us a wink on my scales if you think I may have helped at all;)

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Quick question, I have written to OH official receiver, and awaiting an answer.

In the meantime, will I be held liable for the full outstanding amounts on joint loans, and overdrafts on joint bank accounts, or will hubby's "half", be deducted!

Thank you

Red

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will I be held liable for the full outstanding amounts on joint loans, and overdrafts on joint bank accounts, or will hubby's "half", be deducted!

 

Almost all loans are joints and severable, which means both parties are liable for the full amount of the loan (double recovery is not permitted, so what one party pays, the creditor can't claim from the other).

i will be off site for the next month or so. if you have any problems, feel free to report the post so a moderator can help you.

 

I am not a qualified or practicing lawyer.

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If the loan was a joint loan, or you were a guarantor, you would be liable for it in full.

 

Any loan in hubbies name only, you would not be liable for.

 

Obviously, the normal dispute route is open to you.

i will be off site for the next month or so. if you have any problems, feel free to report the post so a moderator can help you.

 

I am not a qualified or practicing lawyer.

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Quick update, I have questioned the OR about the house, and also have sent a list of payments including the final payment about the car in dispute which I made! So therefore contesting the legal ownership. I am reticent at the moment to go forward and pay out money for an MOT and also tax if the car is going to be sold in order to pay OH's creditors!

Will continue to post.

Red

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Hi Red

I think that the OR will take the car if it does not have any MOT on it anyway, at least thats the way it was explained to me last week. The way they see it is that its money just sitting there.

 

They came and took my bike today :Cry:

Tip us a wink on my scales if you think I may have helped at all;)

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How much is the car worth?

i will be off site for the next month or so. if you have any problems, feel free to report the post so a moderator can help you.

 

I am not a qualified or practicing lawyer.

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Hello,It is frightening when you don't know much about bankruptcy. I was in that situation. However some knowledge of the system eased my fears.You could have been talking about me when I read your husband's story.I have been defrauded by my staff and a drug gang and incurred nearly £100k worth of debts. The banks immediately called in my debts which stopped from trading and incurred a further £25k. After professional advice from cccs and other debt agencies I filed for bankruptcy.Yes life is a little restrained but I am optimistic. All my debts have been cancelled including tax & n.i. contributions.With reference to the house my worst fear (losing the house) is also reduced because the O.R. are not appointing a trustee for the sale of our property. Though we have about £50k of equity.By the time all cost are disbursed from the sale of the house and the profit left is split between my wife and myself there is little or no equity to pay any of my debtors.My wife just like you will have to repurchase my share of the house from the O.R. We can negotiate the price with the O.R. based on the level of debt we have on the mortgage and any secured lending (2nd charge) on the property.In my situation, it could cost us anything up to £20k If we have a negative equity (we owe more the than value of the house) situation than my wife like yourself can repurchase the right to the house for a token £1.00 plus £211 for administration cost.Do not improve your property during this stage as it could increase its value.It's up to the O.R. to get a valuation. Do not spend money on that task. Whatever the cost we have to make sure that the deeds of the house are transfered into my wife/children names.This is to prevent the banks from hassling me again in five or ten years time since my property will have increased in value.Any money that is in a business partnership has not been touched. Half of any money in a joint account with my wife is allocated to repay my debts. Get your husband to open a "cashminder account" with the co-op bank. Surf the internet for option & advice. Get a prepaid credit card wich allows you to pay for goods in the high streets,...The government has set the bankruptcy laws to protect individual like your husband and myself and allow us to have a fresh start. DO NOT BE ASHAMED OF IT. UNFORSEEN CIRCUMSTANCES BEFALL ANYONE.BE OF GOOD COURAGE IT LAST ONLY FOR TWELVE MONTH AND YOU CAN START TO REBUILD YOUR LIFE WTH PRIDE. ALL THE DEBTS ARE GONE.Your fellow in bankruptcyp>

Hi all, I wanted to post a thread as a time line / story about my hubbys potential insolvency.

We are married and own our own home. We do not have much equity in the house.

 

The very basic out line is : Hubby is due in court at the end of May 07, as a big bank want to place a charge on our property against a guarantee which he made to them against loans/overdraft on a business account. He has lots of other credit card debts outstanding. (I have a separate thread regarding the charge on the property issue).

 

We are now contemplating him chosing insolvency.

 

We are not taking this decision lightly, this is a big scary trip into the unknown.

 

Tomorrow we go to see an Insolvency Practioner.

 

Any advice and especially support welcome!

 

Will keep you posted

Red

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Any joint debts become yours. My wife has suffered the same. However we have spoken to the bank and told them that my wife is unable to meet the debt. The next step was to make them an offer based on what is left from our monthly expenditure, for my wife £20/mth.however they are trying to secure the debt on the house which we are declining. Speak to the Consumer Credit Counsel Service, they are very good and have fairly hefty clout.

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Hi Kisimba, thank you for your messages, and it is great to hear from people in a similar situation. I really feel for you about what happened to your business, its one thing if you recklessly splash your money about and then can't repay your debts, but something else competely when the situaiton was not one where you could really accept the blame.

You mentioned something about the banks hassling you in 5/10 years time. What was it that you were referring to? I was uncertain, because your debts became the OR once BR was filed, or at least that was the impression I was given. Thank you regarding the advice for the valuation, I had phoned an estate agent (who didnt turn up any way!), but will sort the car out first!

Update about the car

Tomterm8, the car is valued according to Parkers at around £4000, however, we were rushed when filling out the form at the IP, and put £6k. We have since advised the OR of our mistake, but think that he still wants the £2k "equity". The OR replied to my letter about me making payments (that was only about 1/10 of my argument though!) on the HP plus the final payment, and he said that he would contact the finance co direct (although not sure what info they can give as they are not a creditor). So at the moment I still am using the car for work.

Hubby is going to phone the OR regarding the MOT, Cambelt, service and road tax, as we dont want to pay out £700 and then he sells it 2 weeks later. Bit tricky, as this is all due at the end of July! Timing!

Tau, sorry to hear about your bike, I guess that your case was a little more straight forward than mine!

Will keep you posted!

Red

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi all, update on the latest news:

The OR has gone on hols and returns on 1st August (the day after the car's tax and MOT expire - timing!!). We received an ambiguously worded letter stating that the OR has no interest in personal possessions and tools of the trade. In the form that we filled out with our IP, the car was put under the motor vehicle section with an asterisk to tools of the trade to cross reference.

So I am not 100% sure of where we stand ATM. Will just have to continue as if we are keeping the car and bite the bullet. Seeing as I will be kept in the dark until the OR returns!

In the meantime, I have received my notice to interested parties of a dwelling-house (my home!!), and also a separate letter regarding the beneficial interest of the property.

I have to obtain the valuations and also the amounts owed to the mortgage company (in this case including ERC).

I probably will speak to the IP first as don't want to rush this one. Sadly in the news, house prices have risen 26% locally within one year! :eek:

That's all folks!

Red

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