CCA's and Dave against the world !!!

[redsue]

will they chase if they have not got cca...

 

yes, yes and yes - these cowboys just carry on regardless

[ODC]

yes, yes and yes - these cowboys just carry on regardless

They may chase but without a CCA its a bit like a dog chasing a car. They can do nothing about it. Other than give you more ammunition for you complaints

[redsue]

yes exactly, in my case, they just keep sending nasty letters and processing data

[un1boy]

They may chase but without a CCA its a bit like a dog chasing a car. They can do nothing about it. Other than give you more ammunition for you complaints

 

If they are doing this, just issue an N1 and be done with it - that's what I've just done!

 

They cannot enforce the agreement which means enforcing ANY terms and conditions so they should not be writing to you either.

 

You could as far as saying that they have no legitimate reason for holding ur data (name, address etc) if they cannot provide the agreement and therefore are commitng a criminal offence under the DPA but that's another story.

 

Just issue an N1 - I got really fed up with it and it should all be removed and settled anytime now.

[redsue]

uniboy - would it be possible to pm me with your poc details - I've sent an LBA and I'm about to issue proceedings

 

dave - sorry to hijack!

[wednesday1867]

Thats my plan, as soon as each creditor is over their 42 days im gonna start court proceedings to get the debt legally wiped out.

[shooter001]

has anyone got any input for this letter regarding the criminal offence now committed by barclays and my letter of intention to claim back my money paid to them. Any help is very appreciated. thnx.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/barclays-bank/106164-barclays-loan-defaulted.html#post1025219

[minky93]

Thank You! so much for your advice Dave & ODC I will send the letter tomorrow! thanks for the use of the letter Dave, which I will alter to suit...

 

Thanks again

 

minky xxx

[minky93]

Hi Minky

 

I would (for the time being) do no.2, but with the addition of "as they havent complied and are in default, you do not acknowledge any debt etc"

 

i would also tell them that as they are in criminal default they cannot while the default exists enforce the debt, add interest, or pass data onto third parties.

 

I would put the ball into their court and increase the pressure!

 

this letter may suffice...edit it as you think

I refer to my letters dated XXXXXXXX which was delivered via recorded delivery to your offices on XXXXXXXX, and my follow up letter dated XXXXXXXX.

 

In my letter xxxxxxI made a formal request for a copy of the signed, executed credit agreement for the above numbered XXXXXXXX account under section 77(1) and section 78(1) of the Consumer Credit Act. In addition a statement of my account should have been sent along with any other document mentioned in the credit agreement.

 

The Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for this request to be carried out before your company enter into a default situation. If the request is not satisfied after a further 30 calendar days, Your company commit an offence.

 

These time limits expired on XXXXXXXX and XXXXXXXX respectively.

 

As you are no doubt aware subsection (6) states:

 

If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1)—

 

(a) He is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement; and

(b) If the default continues for one month he commits an offence.

 

Therefore as at XXXXXXXX this account became unenforceable at law and it is now my intention to refer this matter to the enforcement authorities.

 

Any default notices or adverse comments your company has recorded on my credit reference file should be immediately removed.

 

Failure to respond favourably to this letter within 14 days of receipt will result in immediate litigation being commenced against your company without further notice.

 

I await your rapid response.

 

 

Yours Faithfully

 

Hi! Dave will it be okay to send letter to DCA? as I do not have an address for the OC.

Asssuming you sent tem the change of address by recorded delivery.

 

Ask for a copy of their internal complaints procedure and make an official complaint to them as well as informing Trading Standards that they have committed an offence

 

Hi! ODC With not having an address for the OC will it be okay to send the request for the internal complaints procedure to DCA so they can pass on to OC.

I may be wrong but I am assuming it is the Original Creditor who I am going after now and not the DCA..

 

Thanks again for your time guys! I really do appreciate the help.

 

 

minky xxx

[davefirewalker]

Hi minky

 

If the dca has bought the debt it is their responsibility, if they are acting as agents then they should pass your request on.

 

they are however themselves liable to action the request due to s.189

 

hope this helps

[ODC]

Hi! Dave will it be okay to send letter to DCA? as I do not have an address for the OC.

 

 

 

Hi! ODC With not having an address for the OC will it be okay to send the request for the internal complaints procedure to DCA so they can pass on to OC.

 

I may be wrong but I am assuming it is the Original Creditor who I am going after now and not the DCA..

 

Thanks again for your time guys! I really do appreciate the help.

 

 

minky xxx

Who was the original creditor???? The DCA will do the usual stunt of ''we bought the rights but not the responsibilities'' sh!te. If you can get the name of the OC ( we will soon get an address) then an SAR to them will give you a mine of useful information.

[minky93]

Hi minky

 

If the dca has bought the debt it is their responsibility, if they are acting as agents then they should pass your request on.

 

they are however themselves liable to action the request due to s.189

 

hope this helps

 

Thanks Dave.. Going to get them sent off tomorrow, It is looking like they can't find the CCA or like my copy it isn't signed.

 

Many Many Thanks

 

minky xxx

[minky93]

Who was the original creditor???? The DCA will do the usual stunt of ''we bought the rights but not the responsibilities'' sh!te. If you can get the name of the OC ( we will soon get an address) then an S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) to them will give you a mine of useful information.

 

Hi! ODC

 

The original creditor (Loan) was Capital Bank (A Bank of Scotland Company) but the DCA Wescot letter rec 16th May are quoting Bank of Scotland as the Creditor and the latest DCA Equidebt letter rec 29th May are quoting HBOS (Halifax Bank Of Scotland) as the Creditor.

 

The CCA req to Wescot 30th May has not shown up as signed for on Royal Mail site and the CCA req to Equidebt sent 4th June was signed for on 5th June. No response from Wescot cos I think it was passed on to Equidebt and as far as I am aware I don't think the OC has sold the debt, as I have not received anything to say so, but there again they are still sending mail to the wrong address even though I Informed both DCA's in BOLD/CAPITALS of my COA appended to the CCA req's.

 

So I think it is a bit of a lottery who I am in debt to lol...

 

Thanks ODC for all your good advice....

 

minky xxx

[ODC]

Well then it looks like HBOS should be the subject of the butt of your complaints and SAR. They employ these scummy DCAs so ultimately are respponsible for the actions of the agents of Satan

[un1boy]

uniboy - would it be possible to pm me with your poc details - I've sent an LBA and I'm about to issue proceedings

 

dave - sorry to hijack!

 

Here you go!

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legalities/102075-un1boy-n1-issued-breach-3.html

[davefirewalker]

OK guys......

 

Time for an update

 

Barclays have folded on the charges issue and a cheque (not a credit to the account) will be with me within 2-3 days.....we'll see

 

The PPI claim is ongoing and several letters and emails have gone back and forth. the last couple are here........

 

Dave to barclays.............

 

Dear Sir

 

Further to my earlier letter, I have been studying the documents sent, a few things have come to my attention.

 

1 The terms and conditions are not only Monument (as opposed to Providian), but appear to be very recent and NOT the terms and conditions signed up to. Unless you can supply the originals, how can I be sure of ANY contractual details including but not limited to the ability to vary the agreement?

 

2 The signed agreement does not have the creditor’s signature. Please see S.61 CCA1974

 

3 The signed agreement does not have ANY prescribed terms. Please see S.60 CCA1974 and consumer credit (agreements) act 1983 (as amended)

 

4 The signed agreement has very few required terms

 

5 The signed agreement does not have the creditor’s address

 

6 The terms and conditions supplied not only do not have any prescribed terms, but very few (if any ) required terms. I would draw your attention to credit limits, rate of interest, repayment schedules, cancelation rights, rights and remedies, default charges, etc etc

 

7 I now also draw your attention to CCA1974 S.172

 

8 You have been in default of the CCA1974 since 03/05/07. I am sure that I don’t have to spell out the consequences of non compliance. YET you are still pursuing for payment and adding interest to the account and no doubt processing data and passing that data onto third parties illegally.

 

9 Notwithstanding your default, you are still pursuing payment and adding interest while the account is subject to legal action. This is expressly against the OFT rules and your own banking standards

 

10 I now seem to have a Barclaycard account instead of Monument one, Complete with different account numbers. If you have transferred this account you have broken your own terms, may I draw your attention to section 12. No notice of any such transfer was received. If this is an attempt at confusion or deception, it will be brought to the attention of the court.

 

11 As you have not informed me of any change or variation to my account and as I have not agreed to any terms and conditions nor have I signed any such agreement for a Barclaycard account, I do not recognise that particular debt.

 

This is not an exhaustive list by any means, but it is my intention to bring these matters and any more that I find, to the attention of the court.

 

I hope that you will respond to these queries in a timely and professional manner.

 

I await your response

 

their response......................????

 

Dear....

I have not received your letter of 18.07.07. You have also not made clear what section of the CCA you allege the Bank is in breach of.

 

Please let me know what section you allege gives criminal liability in relation to your Claim.

 

Regards,

 

(The letter was attached to the email, faxed, and posted ????? )

 

my reply.......................

 

Thank you for you quick response

 

My letter of the 18/07/07 was enclosed within the document attachment, and is enclosed again for your perusal. Please read

 

I don’t think that there is any section of my initial claim that gives rise to any criminal liability, (other than you not paying it!).

 

As regards the claim I cannot even think why you are trying to defend it, other than to waste time. We both know that it is indefensible

The PPI was put onto the account without any agreement. It also mysteriously stopped for 23 months??? And then started again.

I did not “tick” any boxes, or agree in writing. Barclays have admitted as much, and also state that they have NO record of an agreement.

 

However as regards the banks criminal liability regarding my s78 request, I suggest that you read the enclosed letter carefully, as all the information is there.

 

I don’t think that it is my job to fully explain the workings of the consumer credit act.

 

But you should be aware that any creditor has 12 working days to supply the requested documentation.

 

If he has not supplied it within that time period they are in default, and cannot enforce the debt.

 

If they cannot supply the relevant documents within a further month, they have committed a criminal offence.

 

THIS IS THE POSITION BARCLAYS ARE NOW IN!!!

 

As a legal representative of your client (Barclays) you should have at least a basic understanding of “the act” and your clients responsibilities.

I suggest you read up on sections 60-65, s77-78 , s127, s172 also the 1983 consumer credit (agreements) regulations 1983 (s1 1553)

 

After that have a look at what you and your client have sent in relation to my request, and the points raised in the letter, and then decide if you have complied or not.

 

I am trying not to be condescending, but find it hard to believe that professional legal executives, don’t understand what they are dealing with.

It is either a true lack of knowledge (which I find hard to believe) or an attempt at delaying tactics, Subterfuge, deceit or confusion, or all of them.

 

I would welcome your interpretation of what Barclays are doing by changing my account “midstream”, while it is subject to legal proceedings and STILL chasing payment, adding interest and no doubt passing this data on illegally to third parties. If this is an effort to distract or confuse the issue it WILL be brought to the attention of the court.

 

I would welcome also your thoughts on compliance with the Act, and if the documents sent actually do comply

 

Thank you

 

...............................................

 

well that and MBNA are now getting on my nerves, might just send them the " I believe that this agreement is unenforceable " letter.

 

I keep forgetting about AMEX......will get something done tonight for tommorrows post

 

rgds to all

 

Dave

[standingupformyself]

Hi Dave, MrFirewalker sir!!!!

Things are getting interesting here aren't they!

You have been a mine of information to me with my MBNA thread... can you have a look at this one for me . I am claiming charges back, plus CI which will wipe the balance...... Just wondering if I can use their pathetic attempt at sending a CCA to add weight to my claim case, thank you xx

 

CCA or application form Please have a look - The Consumer Forums

[vinegarvera]

Sorry to sound dim or if i have missed it but what is an N1 form and where can I find one?

[ncf355]

Vin - N1 is a court claim form - find it in the site teplates section

 

 

Dave FW - LMAO and ROTFLMAO!

 

Sheer class my friend

 

[davefirewalker]

hi vinegar.....

 

try here....http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/HMCSCourtFinder/GetForm.do?court_forms_id=338

 

its the claim form used to actually START the claim

 

rgds

 

Dave

[davefirewalker]

Hi standing....

 

I'll Have a looksee

 

dave

[shane5408]

Sorry to sound dim or if i have missed it but what is an N1 form and where can I find one?

 

 

no worries! N1 is the alternative to MCOL for filing a claim, it can be found on the link below. I def recommend using N1, no limit on POC's and possibility of filing orders and motions later on if needed. MCOL can be quite restricted.

 

http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/courtfinder/forms/n1_0102.pdf

 

regards,

shane

[shane5408]

no worries! N1 is the alternative to MCOL for filing a claim, it can be found on the link below. I def recommend using N1, no limit on POC's and possibility of filing orders and motions later on if needed. MCOL can be quite restricted.

 

http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/courtfinder/forms/n1_0102.pdf

 

regards,

shane

 

ok, for some reason when i posted this daves' post previously saying the same thing didn't show up! feel free to delete!

[davefirewalker]

 

no worries! N1 is the alternative to MCOL for filing a claim, it can be found on the link below. I def recommend using N1, no limit on POC's and possibility of filing orders and motions later on if needed. MCOL can be quite restricted.

 

http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/c...ms/n1_0102.pdf

 

regards,

shane

 

ok, for some reason when i posted this daves' post previously saying the same thing didn't show up! feel free to delete!

 

 

no probs ...but yours had more usefull info, mine was just a bare post

 

Dave

[davefirewalker]

upate

 

recent (todays) emails

 

my responses in bold

 

I do enjoy the opportunity to argue with you, please be aware that this isn’t personal…It’s business! (as they said in a famous film)

however I don’t see any use in the back and fro of emails as it does not seem to be getting us anywhere.

You may though continue to communicate in this way if you wish, as it saves postage, paper and the planet.

 

What I would like is for your client to admit the case, and be finished with it.

I will accept a cheque for £1220.00 and that will be that, claim 7sw01445 finished with!

 

I will answer your queries on the last one though.

Please feel free to reply or not, as you see fit, though an acknowledgement would be nice

 

Dear ,

Thank you for your note your response to my e-mail of 25.7.07, (3.57). Your letter that you say was sent was attached with your e-mail, so I do not need to receive it again.

 

Thank you for your confirmation your claim under 7SW01445, does not include any alleged criminal liability.

 

No problems, you are very welcome!

 

The Claim is being defended because the Bank does not accept liability for the sum alleged & the Bank has the right to defend it. You equally have to prove your Claim.

 

I do understand your position and I don’t think proving it will be hard, but I do understand that you do have to go through the motions!

 

If you are saying, as it appears you are, that there was no valid agreement between yourself and Monument, then I look forward to receiving your confirmation that your Claim under 7SW01445 is being discontinued as you clearly cannot Claim under an agreement that you yourself claim, did not exist.

 

As there appears to be no regulated agreement, it would follow that I never agreed to any PPI (which I never anyway) this only serves to strengthen my case.

However, you seem to believe that an agreement exists, so I think I might just let the judge decide on the legalities of any alleged agreement.

 

It is not accepted that the Bank has failed to comply with S78 & I refer you to the documents sent to you. As you are asserting a failure to comply with an obligation, it is entirely within the right of the Bank to ask that you clarify & justify your assertion, which is what the Bank has requested you to do. I am grateful for your assistance in clarifying this.

 

It is not accepted that the documents sent to you do not comply with your S78 request & as you will be aware, the original agreement you took out was subject to being updated, since the date of the agreement & I am instructed, that the terms that you have been sent are the most recent terms applicable. You clearly have a copy of the signature portion of the agreement, therefore the Bank is confident that a Court will accept this as a copy of the executed agreement & that you are clearly aware of it.

 

If the original t&c were never sent, how can I be sure of what I allegedly agreed to? More to the point how can YOU be sure. I could argue for example that the original terms gave me the right to 75% off a new car every year. Could you disprove this? No I don’t think you could unless the original terms were presented as evidence. In the same vein I could argue that the interest rate quoted was .001% per year, or that there was never a clause that allowed you to vary the agreement!

 

Has the signature document got ANY prescribed terms ? your answer to this question would be intriguing

 

Of course the documents do not comply….. I quote recent correspondence from the OFT.

 

“A ‘true copy’ of an agreement principally consists of the terms and conditions of the agreement and the statutory content of the agreement. The name, address and signature of the debtor do not have to be provided. Additionally, the creditor must supply the total sum paid under the agreement by the debtor; the total sum which has become payable under the agreement but remains unpaid; and the total sum which is to become payable under the agreement by the debtor (the latter two must include the various amounts comprised in that total sum and the date when each is/was due). However, the copy must be a copy. It need not be exact on immaterial points, but it cannot be a conjectured reconstruction. If the trader has no ORIGINAL copy, the trader will have difficulty showing that he has complied with the regulation by supplying a ‘true copy’, since nobody would know what was in the original. When the trader comes to enforce the debt in court, he needs to have a signed copy of the agreement in order to enforce. As the law stands currently he cannot otherwise.

 

We note your concerns that in the absence of a copy of the original agreement someone's liability for a debt can only lead to further query. However in circumstances like this we would view it is as unfair practice under section 25(2) (d) of the Act and relevant to licence fitness if a trader failed to investigate and/or provide details as appropriate when a debt is queried or disputed.”

 

Also……..

 

General requirements as to form and content of copy documents

 

3.-(1) Subject to the following provisions of these Regulations, every copy of an executed agreement, security instrument or other document referred to in the Act and delivered or sent to a debtor, hirer or surety under any provision of the Act shall be a true copy thereof.

 

(2) There may be omitted from any such copy-

(a) any information included in an executed agreement, security instrument or other document relating to the debtor, hirer or surety or included for the use of the creditor or owner only which is not required to be included therein by the Act or any Regulations thereunder as to the form and content of the document of which it is a copy;

(b) any signature box, signature or date of signature (other than, in the case of a copy of a cancellable executed agreement delivered to the debtor under section 63(1) of the Act, the date of signature by the debtor of an agreement to which section 68(b) of the Act applies);

© in the case of any copy of an unexecuted agreement delivered or sent to the debtor or hirer under section 62 of the Act, the name and address of the debtor or hirer; and

(d) in the case of any copy given to the debtor under section 77(1) of the .

Act of an executed agreement for fixed-sum credit under which a person takes any article in pawn, any description of the article taken in pawn.

 

 

Copies of agreements or security instruments where the agreement or security instrument has been varied

 

7.--(1) Where an agreement has been varied in accordance with section 82(1) of the Act, every copy of the executed agreement given to a debtor, hirer or surety under any provision of the Act other than section 85(1) shall include either-

(a) an easily legible copy of the latest notice of variation given in accordance with section 82(1) of the Act relating to each discrete term of the agreement which has been varied

 

YOU ARE STILL IN DEFAULT !!!

 

The Bank is entitled to transfer ownership and obligations of Monument contracts & I am advised that this was duly notified to all customers & the fact of legal proceedings being issued or continued at the same time is not a bar to this. If you have received letters regarding an indebtedness to Monument, then please forward copies to me & I will assist where I can.

 

I WAS NOT INFORMED OF ANY CHANGE TO THE ACCOUNT, this is in contravention of your own rules. As far as I am concerned, this is still a Monument case.

I do not acknowledge any debt to Barclaycard. NO new terms and conditions were sent, NO new agreements were signed or agreed to!

 

It is not accepted that personal data has been passed on illegally.

Well you would say that!…..HOWEVER If the data is inaccurate (which it is) then you are not processing it lawfully, or do I have to quote chapter and verse of s.10, Data Protection Act 1998

 

10. - (1) Subject to subsection (2), an individual is entitled at any time by notice in writing to a data controller to require the data controller at the end of such period as is reasonable in the circumstances to cease, or not to begin, processing, or processing for a specified purpose or in a specified manner, any personal data in respect of which he is the data subject, on the ground that, for specified reasons-

 

(a) the processing of those data or their processing for that purpose or in that manner is causing or is likely to cause substantial damage or substantial distress to him or to another, and

(b) that damage or distress is or would be unwarranted.

 

You may also take this as an official notice under s.10 Data Protection Act 1998, of my request that you to stop processing my data or passing this data on to third parties. Continuing to process data unlawfully in breach of this request IS a criminal offence.

 

Thank you