thesergeant v Lloyds

[thesergeant]

Found some old account details for a Lloyds account that I had during a difficult period. The debt is currently with DCA "BLS" a subsidiary of ..... yes you got it Lloyds.

 

Well I going to explore the more than six years claim with Lloyds .... :D

[thesergeant]

Lloyds are being a complete pain by failing to provide any data from my SAR request.

 

BLS have moved the debt onto Debt Managers Ltd. I have now challenged the legality of the debt with them and informed that the account is in dispute.

 

Unsurprisingly Lloybles are refusing to provide any data, stating that because I am seeking to claim bank charges back they are under no obligation to supply any data prior to6 years.

 

So lloybles think on this

 

LETTER BEFORE ACTION – Final notification

Section 7 – Data Protection Act 1998

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

You have failed to comply with my Data Protection Act Subject Access Request dated 8th April 2007.

 

I am in receipt of your letter dated 20 July 2007 marked as being from Adrian Morris. I am quite frankly shocked by the deliberate misinformation contained within this letter. The content of this letter is a wholly unacceptable response.

I am not aware of there being any time limit to the information to be disclosed upon receipt of a Subject Access Request. If you hold information you are required to disclose it, if you do not hold any data as requested you are required to state that. You have done neither. You state that banks are only required to consider the last 6 year period. This is a deliberate inaccuracy, as no doubt you are aware. I make the following observations:-

The period of limitation should start from the date of the initial demand for repayment of the proposed unlawful penalty charges, this runs from the date of my preliminary request for your repayment of unlawful charges applied to my account. I have not of course made any such preliminary claim as yet. This is based upon Joachimson v Swiss Bank Corporation [1921] 3 KB 110, where In his judgement Atkin LJ pointed out:-

‘The practical bearing of this decision [as to the necessity for a demand] is on the question of the Statute of Limitations … The result of this decision will be that for the future bankers may have to face legal claims for balances on accounts that have remained dormant for more than six years.’

 

Alternatively at the time that you debited unlawful penalty charges from my account, I was under the mistaken belief that you were entitled under English Law to take that money.

If I had known that the charges were penalties under English Law I would not have paid those charges. In fact I made a mistake in paying those charges believing that you applied those charges in accordance with common and statue law, therefore section 32 © applies and the period of limitation does not begin until the time when I discovered this mistake, that being April 2006, the date of the OFT report into Credit Card Charges.

 

You have received a Subject Access Request from me and have accepted the £10.00 fee. You should carefully consider the following:-

• You have not complied with your responsibilities under the Data Protection Act.
  
• You have failed to disclose any data to me, be it statements printed from electronic data, archived microfiche files or any other data format you may variably use.
  
• Your letter dated 20 July 2007 states that in the case of statements to claim back bank charges you refuse to supply any data held in excess of your arbitrary 6 year period. This amounts to a deliberate and unlawful failure to disclose on your behalf.

If you do not hold any data what so ever in regards to my above stated account, I require you to state so in writing and return my £10.00 forthwith.

To clarify:-

1) You have failed to provide a complete list of transactions and charges, or indeed any record of transactions and charges at all, nor have you stated that you do not hold any such data.

2) You have provided no notes, or documents relating to the running of my account or any legal action between you and myself, nor have you stated that you do not hold any such data.

3) You have provided no notes, or documents relating to instances of manual intervention nor have you stated that you do not hold any such data.

4) You have provided no information regarding my account held with yourself what so ever, such as copies of Consumer Credit Act agreements, account opening applications, overdraft/loan applications or agreements, nor database entries (or archived copies of) concerning such records, nor have you stated that you do not hold any such data.

 

This is not an exhaustive list by any means, it is just an example of some of the information I am missing.

 

I am frankly shocked at Lloyds TSB apparent dishonesty in this regard. A matter that I will refer to the OFT Regulatory Section, Consumer Credit Licensing regarding our fitness to hold a Consumer Credit Licence.

If you do not comply within the next 7 days I shall seek a Court order obliging you to do so together with damages at the discretion of the Court and without any further notice. Secondly I will make a formal complaint to the Information Commissioner’s Office.

[PeterAnderson]

Hi - there

 

Please have a look at my post - there is some useful info on getting your statements; I have several other people here who have used this information and it work for them as well

 

Best of luck

Click on my post here

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/lloyds-bank/92011-peteranderson-ltsb-11-5k.html

[thesergeant]

Had to have a bit of a break from this. But I'm back on the case now!

 

The DCA's abandoned ship on my Lloyds debt passing it back to Lloyds. I had a phone call from Debt recovery I explained my position re: proof of debt and that I considered the account in dispute as I believed that unlawful charges were responsible. I again requested that they comply with my SAR as they still have completely failed to do so.

 

I believe my debt relates to an account in October 1999. Not knowing any better I agreed with the appointed DCA a monthly amount, which I kept up with. Until I discovered all the CAG stuff. I put the account into dispute and have not made any further payments. The debt related to overdraft etc.

 

I want to make a claim against Lloyds for the charges that were applied to that account. They have obviously refused to comply with my SAR stating that they don't have to due to 6 year rule. I know they have microfiche records but how to get them from them?

 

I have had another phone call asking for payment which I declined due to account being in dispute and asking them to comply with DPA and to supply a copy of my CCA agreement which they have also failed to do. The nice person stated OK we'll litigate then.

 

Any observations suggestions etc etc would be gratefully received ..........

[thesergeant]

Forgot to mention I have made complaint to the Information Commissioner, with copies of all correspondence.

[thesergeant]

bump

[Castlebest]

I think you have a stale mate until they respond to your S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) you cant prove one way or the other but neither can they and the account remains in dispute so therefore they cant collect either.

 

You could try writing to them stating unless they comply within, say a calendar month you will assume they agree the debt is unenforceable and has been written off.

 

Apart from that all I can suggest is you wait for them to issue a writ against you and then request the information as part of your defence, see Rory's post #13 on this thread

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/lloyds-bank/116053-lloyds-tsb-loan-claiming.html

 

pete

[thesergeant]

OK I took a break form all this for a while.

 

So I registered a complaint to the ICO which I won 18/12/07. They have written to Lloybles telling them to provide the information - Nothing so far.

 

>>>>>>>.

From the information you have provided to us it seems unlikely that Lloyds TSB have complied with their obligations under the Data Protection Act on this occasion as they have failed to provide you with the information to which you are entitled.

We will therefore be writing to Lloyds TSB with the details of this complaint. We will ask them to ensure that they provide you with the information you are entitled to as a matter of priority. Furthermore we will ask them to take any steps necessary to ensure their future compliance with the Data Protection Act.

 

I have heard nothing further from them re: the alleged debt.

 

[thesergeant]

I have spoken to the ICO as I have received nothing from Lloybles.

 

My ICO case worker phoned me back the same day! They have until Tuesday next week to provide me with all the information requested. She had a reply from them stating that the information is on Microfiche (An admission at last - yes Lloybles have all the info on Microfiche!!) and might take a bit of time.

 

However she said if I have not received it by Tuesday to call back and she will send the file to the investigation team for enforcement action !!!!

 

Now thats action for you - I'm surprised, lets wait and see what happens!!

 

However I now believe that Lloybles have again sold the debt on to another DCA. Now I am sure that breaches the OFT guidelines. I called the FOS, but they stated that Overdrafts are not under CCA !!! Done a bit of research and I am certain they are. Will call them again as I am sure this is a matter for the FOS.

[thesergeant]

I have now been contacted by DCA AIC Ltd. I have written to them advising them that the account is in dispute and that OFT guidelines have been broken continually by Lloyds. IF they wish to continue pursuing the debt then I require all of the information and CCA agreement as previously requested.

 

>>>>

This account is in dispute, which Lloyds TSB are well aware of. They have again forwarded (sold on) this alleged debt to you in breach of OFT guidelines.

This matter has previously been sold on to the debt collection agencies, BLS and Debt Managers Ltd, also in breach of OFT guidelines. BLS returned the matter to Lloyds TSB on 20th June 2007, Debt Managers Ltd on 26th July 2007.

Since the 8th April 2007 Lloyds TSB have failed to supply lawfully requested information. The Information Commissioners Office (ICO), have already ruled that Lloyds TSB must supply it by 5th February 2008. They have again failed to do so, which is now subject of a full investigation by the Data Protection Registrar.

Again I reiterate that if you on behalf of Lloyds TSB wish to continue to pursue this matter, I require the information I have previously requested in order to prove the lawfulness of the debt, which I believe has been misrepresented to me:-

• A true copy of the Consumer Credit Act agreement
  
• A complete list of transactions and charges, for all accounts whether loan, current or savings, from date of opening, or written confirmation that you do not hold any such data in any recoverable format.
  
• Records, notes, or documents relating to the running of my account or any legal action between you and myself, or written confirmation that you do not hold any such data in any recoverable format.
  
• Records, notes or documents relating to instances of manual intervention or written confirmation that you do not hold any such data in any recoverable format.
  
• Records or information regarding my accounts held with yourself, such as copies of Consumer Credit Act agreements, account opening applications, overdraft/loan applications or agreements, database entries (or archived copies of) concerning such records, or written confirmation that you do not hold any such data in any recoverable format.

Please note that this letter is a statutory notice under Section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect. This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies. Should you refuse to comply, you must within 14 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data. It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a “legal right”, you must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends.

Furthermore, you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take any action against an account whilst it remains in dispute. Lloyds TSB complete failure to supply a copy of the credit agreement or to comply with the Data Protection Act clearly illustrates the misrepresentations. These are legitimate matters of dispute. You (Lloyds TSB) have completely failed to keep to statutory requirements to provide documentary proof of the alleged debt. As such the following apply:-

• You may not demand payment on the account nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you
  
• You may not add any further interest or charges to the account
  
• You may not pass the account to any third party
  
• You may not register information in respect of the account to Credit Reference Agencies
  
• You may not issue or update a default notice related to the account

I am very disappointed that you have been deceived by Lloyds TSB in this matter. They (Lloyds TSB) have misled me for some considerable time. They have acted dishonestly in not keeping to statutory requirements.

Any further payment requests or demands from you will be referred to the Information Commissioners Office, OFT and Trading Standards. You will also join as a co-defendant with Lloyds TSB in my County Court action.

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