Mbna - Properly Executed Agreements

[ajjars]

So,

 

Has anyone else received an agreement from MBNA like my hubby's?

 

Or is he still the only one?!

 

And do you think it is a properly executed agreement?

 

Ajjars.

[Cornucopia]

So,

 

Has anyone else received an agreement from MBNA like my hubby's?

 

Or is he still the only one?!

 

And do you think it is a properly executed agreement?

 

Ajjars.

 

Hello all! Posting post-party and am a bit fuzzy, but needed to bump my thread a little just to please RHIA!!!!! Never mind I have to be up for daughter, school and work in 4 hours:o

 

Ajjars, yours is the first for me. Battleaxe thinks it's illegible. Can I suggest somebody throw it over to the CCA thread (link above somewhere for Johnny Progenic) and see what the experts over there have to say? I don't know how to do that because I am rubbish.

 

BA, can you help with this??

 

Night all x

[dpick]

Hi Cornucopia it's dpick again I have sent off my CCA to MBNA but as a side note a mate of mine is chasing MBNA through on of these no win no fee outfits and MBNA keep sending all correspondence to him (as if company he is with don't exist). So he copies every thing then sends on to the ambulance chasers. But to get back to the point he let me see his copy of agreement guess what application form again.

 

Cannot wait to see what they send me.

 

dpick:p

[Guest Battleaxe]

When I said illegible, it is only from the stance that I cannot read what has been scanned. I have not seen the copy before the scan.

 

Ajjars if all the boxes are signed and I think you said you blanked out things to protect the living. if all the signature boxes are completed and it has been accompanied by the original T & C's it is an enforceable agreement as far I can ascertain.

 

If it is a bad copy of what is purported to be the orginal agreement, then you have an argument. You must insist on a true copy of the EXECUTED AGREEMENT with the original T & C's at the time the Agreement was signed It might be worth the £10.00 to you, for an SAR to see what they produce.

 

I have posted it up on the CCA forum, but as so much was blanked out, I don't think you will get a definitive answer.

[Guest Battleaxe]

Question - from the state of it, would you say it is a properly executed agreement from MBNA?

---End Quote---

BA

 

I think that is the word, IF, and you need to ask the recipient to answer the question honestly, the recipient cannot read ALL the T&C then it is illegible and must be returned as such with a request to FULLY comply with the Act.

 

Z

 

This is the first replay ajjars

[Guest Battleaxe]

From M55 on the CCA thread

 

Oh, and it isn't signed by MBNA as it looks like mine. Oh, and in the middle bit of the signed side of the application, it mentions the word application 3 times, one of which is to allow processing of the application outside of the UK (in the US). It isn't signed by them and therefore it isn't executed therefore they HAVE NOT COMPLIED with the CCA 1974 and it is in breach of s85

[ajjars]

Hi Battleaxe,

 

We did SAR mbna, but all we got back was a list of transactions.

 

The only parts of the "agreement" that have been blanked out (obviously) are name and address, credit ref no, and hubbys sig, apart from that, it is as it is. The original is slightly more legible, but still most of it cannot be read. That is the only thing we got with the CCA compliance, front and back copies of the "agreement", nothing else and the compliment slip said "copy application as requested".

 

I don't think it's worth asking for another copy. It will probably be the same. We are in the middle of reclaiming charges from them and have had a very small "GOGW" refunded to the account! Just want to get on with it and get shot of them ..........

 

Thanks tho for everyones comments!

[Guest Battleaxe]

ajjars,

 

you have an unexecuted agreement on your hands, MBNA now have an unenforceable debt and will will have to see a judge to try and get it enforced. Of course you can bet they are also in breachjof Section 85, so the best bit, they have to give back all the interest you have paid to them since on month after they re-issued your second card.

[dpick]

Hi all can you comment on this also in dpick and mbna and capitalone thread

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by dpick

Hi just checked MBNA account online and the twits have taken CCA 1GBP off my account balance will ring them today to remained them CCA is a legal request and not an option to remove 1GBP from my account.

 

GBP due to American keyboard setup on laptop and setup for wife to use that way.

 

dpick:razz:

 

Rang MBNA customer line got passed to arranged payments asked why my payment for CCA taken off my account balance was to because I Had sent to wrong address. Address used.

 

MBNA EUROPE BANK LTD

STANDFIELD HOUSE

CHESTER BUSINESS PART

CHESTER

CHESHIRE

CH4 9QQ

 

They then said I had to send letter to MBNA advocates office. I said I have sent to your head office address can you send on they say NO.

 

Is this just a delaying tactic or am I ok to just keep my timescale and wait for default and criminal offense etc.

 

Thanks dpick

[The Lantana]

Hi dpick

 

It's a delaying tactic / ignorance on the part of MBNA. You sent it to their registered office, which is correct. By law that's the address for all legal correspondence.

 

In future, address your letters to 'The Company Secretary' at that address and let him / her deal with it.

 

Regards

 

Lantana

[seniorservice]

Don't think it really matters where you send it - they've received it and the clock is ticking. (Think that by showing the £1/£10 on your account it helps them with their bad debt provisions by showing the customer is active and hasn't stopped paying) As lots of other posts/threads show it's all pretty academic as they probably can't provide the copy agreement anyway.

Good luck

[dpick]

Hi dpick

 

It's a delaying tactic / ignorance on the part of MBNA. You sent it to their registered office, which is correct. By law that's the address for all legal correspondence.

 

In future, address your letters to 'The Company Secretary' at that address and let him / her deal with it.

 

Regards

 

Lantana

 

Thanks Lantana thats what I thought have also sent email containing copy of original letter (oops left note on it to myself re deadline date) and details of phone call to customer advocates office after checking MBNA website. They cannot say they did not get it I tracked it to their server.

 

dpick:-x

[seniorservice]

Just a question for Corn and other friends on here.

My son received a mailshot today for an Arsenal credit card issued by MBNA. Looking at the agreement - it has the usual CCA signature box and is headed 'Credit Agreement Regulated by CCA 1974' etc, but no signature box for MBNA to execute the agreement just like other MBNA agreements I've seen.

Am I (or are we) missing something here? Why would a large company like MBNA (Bank of America) deliberately not want to show that the agreement has been executed and risk each and every one being unenforceable. Just worried in case there is something in the Act we've all overlooked. Any ideas???

[The Lantana]

seniorservice, I suspect that by simply stamping (and perhaps initialing) the agreement their execution is effective. I'd be surprised if a Judge rejected their claim simply because they'd not signed the document in some uber-formal way.

 

I've had an affinity card mailshot from MBNA too. I think their new agreement is impressive insofar as it addresses the requirements of thre law, but it would be interesting to ask them why they changed it?

 

Aren't they simply admitting the previous ones aren't any good!

 

Regards

 

Lantana

[Rhia]

Can you post a copy of this Arsenal form on here. Would like to see.

I suspect any new forms now will be tightened up as we have all been pointing out the error of their ways. They would be foolish to carry on as they have been as if everyone contested the legality of their pseudo application form/agreement the company would be filing for bankruptcy.

[seniorservice]

Interesting Lantana, you'd think that at least they would have a signature box - just stamping or initialling the agreement somewhere wouldn't really indicate anything, particularly as it needs to be dated. Doesn't S60/61 say that to be properly executed the agreement needs be signed by both parties? Still don't really understand what they're up to.

[seniorservice]

Sorry Rhia, I've got a problem about anything to do with MBNA and shredded it - sure there'll be another one along soon.

Regards.

 

PS It definitely didn't have a second signature box or any other space for them to sign!

[progenic7]

I have just dug out the original copy of the agreement they sent to me when i first signed up for the card, though clearly its not the actual original aplication form just the credit agreement.

No signed boxes anywhere on it, just the terms and conditions and the cancelation box.

 

worried now because i imagine they are stamping every agreement they send back out to cover themselves

 

who started all this off huh lol

[The Lantana]

Okay, I've managed to get a scan of the application / agreement but I can't for the life of me figure how to post it here - anyone?

 

Regards

 

Lantana

[Jeff2000]

Okay, I've managed to get a scan of the application / agreement but I can't for the life of me figure how to post it here - anyone?

 

Regards

 

Lantana

 

 

Hi Lantana,

 

One way is to upload it here:

 

Photo sharing site, free image and video hosting: Photobucket.com

 

and then post a link to it.

 

Regards, Jeff.

[The Lantana]

Thanks Jeff, here it is!

 

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/The_Lantana/mbna.jpg

[Rhia]

I'm no expert on this but this looks to me like it would fulfill the requirements of the Consumer Credit Act as it seems to have all the information required such as interest rates. The old MBNA forms were just application forms and there were a few T&Cs on a separate page and then they were incomplete so it does look like they've sharpened their act up. Be interested to know what others think.

[The Lantana]

I'm with you Rhia. The only obvious thing missing is somewhere for them to sign, but I'm not sure that's a big issue. I think they can simply stamp acceptance and that's an effective execution.

 

Now that we have an idea of what a good one is, it will help us recognise when we get bad ones!

 

Regards

 

Lantana

[seniorservice]

Sorry to bang on chaps, but this must be fairly fundamental for the hundreds of people doing CCA requests on here - especially with MBNA.

Are we saying that despite S61, which says that for an agreement to be properly executed it has to be signed by both parties, rubber stamping a signature or initialling anywhere on the agreement/application without any indication what the signature represents and not dated, executes it?

Surely this can't be right.

Most agreements with other lenders have two datable signature boxes for the debtor and creditor - why should MBNA interpret the law differently to everyone else (and carry on doing so for years)?

[Rhia]

Are we saying that despite S61, which says that for an agreement to be properly executed it has to be signed by both parties, rubber stamping a signature or initialling anywhere on the agreement/application without any indication what the signature represents and not dated, executes it?

Surely this can't be right.

Most agreements with other lenders have two datable signature boxes for the debtor and creditor - why should MBNA interpret the law differently to everyone else (and carry on doing so for years)?

No I'm not saying that. Any agreement has to have a signature by the person taking up the offer and should be verified by the maker of that offer with an official date stamp and a signature (possibly initials). Otherwise it is just an incompleted form. This is what S61 says. I think this bit about not having a signature is if you ask the lender to produce a copy of the agreement and for convenience it needn't be a signed copy.

HOWEVER if there is a dispute over this agreement they have to be able to produce the original copy (particularly in court) which must have all terms under S71-78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 AND the signatures, dates etc as S61 to be a complete agreement and legally enforceable. That is just my take on it but having looked at lots of threads and the CCA this is the line that makes most sense.