natwest v shelbel1

[shelbel1]

i am at the stage where i have sent my n149 to the courts. i have now received a letter from cobbetts asking for my account details and particulars of my claim otherwise natwest cannot defend itself fully!

i thought my original POC would be sufficient- can anyone advise me what to do next/

[JOE 90]

if you have followed all of the steps correctly then you have to do nothing this is just more intimidation by cobblers

[shelbel1]

thanks alex:)

[thecornflake]

It may be best to send details again anyway just so they can't argue anything in court, like they asked for info and didn't get it. It won't impact your timescale at all and it's best to make sure they have absolutely no reason to say you didn't provide information.

[shelbel1]

thankyou cornflake. i have done this and also sent copies to court along with my n149.

[shelbel1]

Can anyone help me on this. my original "poc" was for estimated charges without interest. i sent the basic letter originally from bbc website - this didnt detail every charge one by one and dates etc .

so do you think i've done it all wrong and what do i do now??

PLEASE HELP

[Guest NATTIE]

what were the particulars of the claim that you wrote?

[shelbel1]

Dear Sir/Madam

REGARDING MY ACCOUNT:- xxxxxx SORT CODE:- xxxxxDue to recent media coverage on bank charges I now believe that you-natwest have been charging me charges that are contrary to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations1999. Schedule 2 (e) of the said regulations gives a non complete list of terms, which may be regarded as unfair, such as a term that requires me as a consumer who fails in his obligation, to pay a disproportionately high sum in compensation.

I believe that your charges are disproportionately high and therefore they are contrary to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Regulations 1999. In addition I believe that your charges are a Penalty. Penalty charges are irrecoverable at comon law. The precedent for this was Dunlop Pneumatic Tyre Co Ltd v New Garage and Motor co Ltd [1915] AC 79 along with Murray v Leisure play [2005] EWCA Civ 963. It was held that a contractual party can only recover damages for an actual loss or liquidated losses. It is clear that your charges do not reflect any actual and or real loss.

I currently have my bank statements for the last 12 months the charges during this period come to a total of £xxxxx Therefore I have estimated that over the last six years the total amount of charges you have applied to my account is £xxxx. Consequently I require you to refund me a total of £xxxx, representing the total, unlawful amount charged during the last six years. If you disagree with this amount please supply me a copy of all the charges applied to my account dating back six years within the next seven days.

I hereby give you 14 days to refund all the charges dating back six years on to my account, plus provide evidence that this is the total amount. For the avoidance of doubt, if this is not done within 14 days, I will commence legal proceedings without further warning. This action will inevitably involve you paying additional costs.

I also hereby request a detailed report of which clause in your terms and conditions each charge has been applied against.

Yours sincerely

 

i havent claimed interest as i thought they would settle easier-so do i have to reply to them with more dates/amounts etc????PLEASE HELP I'm really worried i've done it all wrong

[Guest NATTIE]

Did you not ask for all statements on the account by doing a SAR so you could claim the correct amounts? Calm down I will help, just getting background info at the moment.

[shelbel1]

i did get all my statements from them, but i still thought just to carry on with the estimated amount to get it easier!

my amount comes to just under £4000

[Michael Browne]

This is your letter before action.

 

When you filed your claim what POC's did you use?

[Guest NATTIE]

No, you are making a mistake in doing it that way if your estimate is way out. Please spend some time going through the statements and check the amount. You may have to amend the claim, and if you have any further questions on what charges mean, or are, post on here.

[shelbel1]

ok nattie , i've just sent this lba as my poc as i thought this was enough info,i do know the charges are not way out though. how do i amend my claim , do i do it by contacting the courts or cobbetts? do i need a specific form or just in the form of a letter?

[Guest NATTIE]

you need to contact the courts, and amend the claim but it will cost you £35 which you cannot claim. You need to make a schedule of charges, so Charge amount and date. How far out on it are you? Are you up or down on the estimate?

[Michael Browne]

For your schedule of charges use the Simple S/S here:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/182-interest-calculation-spreadsheets.html

and guide here:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/barclays-bcard-woolwich-successes/7226-maisielou-barclays.html#post50088

 

Overwrite the existing examples type of charge, amount and date.

 

The days since and 8% will be calculated automatically

[shelbel1]

nattie i am about £150-£200( i mean over what they owe me) but by the time i would of added interest wouldnt it have been more anyway

[gizmo111]

ok nattie , i've just sent this lba as my poc as i thought this was enough info,i do know the charges are not way out though. how do i amend my claim , do i do it by contacting the courts or cobbetts? do i need a specific form or just in the form of a letter?

 

I assume you had to use an n1 form for this and not MCOL?

Do as Nattie says and amend your POC on a N244 - you need to pay £35 fee and unfortuneately this is not reclaimable.

[shelbel1]

micheal when i open the schedule of charges ss do i fill it in with my details and then it will calculate the interest for me- sorry to sound thick but i'm not too good with technical/maths etc

[shelbel1]

gizmo i will do this monday morning 1st thing at the court- do they send a copy to cobbetts or do i need to do that also?

p.s you are all so brilliant, i'm feeling so much better and hopefully will get everything back on track now with all your advice

[gizmo111]

shelbel - you need 3 copies of everyting - 1 for court - 1 for cobbetts and 1 for yourself.

[shelbel1]

THANKYOU THANKYOU THANKYOU I will do xxxxx:D

[Michael Browne]

when i open the schedule of charges ss do i fill it in with my details and then it will calculate the interest for me

See here for visual guide

Maisielou v Barclays - SETTLED!!

 

 

 

You can download N244 here:

Form N244 - application notice

 

With regard to the N244 -

Top left hand box:

 

1. Tick c), without a hearing

Leave the rest blank

 

Part A

intend to apply for an order that:

amends my particulars of claim

 

because:

my schedule of charges in my particulars of claim did not state the true total of my claim

 

Part B

Tick evidence in part c

 

Part C

Please find attached to this application my proposed new particulars of claim, amended to include an amended schedule of the amount claimed in respect of penalty charges levied by the defendant"

 

 

Send N244 + 3 N1 + 3 schedules + £35 fee to the court. They will send 2 back, 1 of which you serve/send to the defendants and confirm to the court that you have done so.

 

N1 PARTICULARS OF CLAIM

 

1. The Claimant [has] [had] an account (XXXX Account No) with the Defendant which was opened on or around Date [and closed on or around date]

2. During the period in which the Account [has been] [was] operating the Defendant debited numerous charges to the Account in respect of purported breaches of contract on the part of the Claimant and also charged interest on the charges once applied. The Claimant understands that the Defendant contends that the charges were debited in accordance with the terms of the contract between itself and the Claimant.

3. A list of the charges applied is attached to these particulars of claim.

4. The Claimant contends that:

a) The charges debited to the Account are punitive in nature; are not a genuine pre-estimate of cost incurred by the Defendant; exceed any alleged actual loss to the Defendant in respect of any breaches of contract on the part of the Claimant; and are not intended to represent or related to any alleged actual loss, but instead unduly enrich the Defendant which exercises the contractual term in respect of such charges with a view to profit.

b) The contractual provision that permits the Defendant to levy such charges is unenforceable by virtue of the Unfair Contract Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations (1999), the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977 and the common law.

 

5. Alternatively, if the charges are a fee for a service, then they must be reasonable under S.15 of the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982.

6. Accordingly the Claimant claims:

a) the return of the amounts debited in respect of charges in the sum of £XXXX and any interest charged thereon;

 

b) Court costs;

c) Interest pursuant to S.69 County Courts Act 1984 of 8% as set out on the attached list of charges - £xxx [enter interest total at date of claim] continuing at 8% until judgement or settlement at a daily rate of £0.xx.

 

 

[shelbel1]

hi there

just wondering as i now have court date of 27/04/07. have just started to look through all the paperwork everyone has talkked about on this site.

do i need to print absolutely everything 3x as i dont even understand half of it and it all looks like gobbldy gook to me! i wouldnt even know what i was to talk about if i had to go into court with all that.

please help

[gizmo111]

hi there

just wondering as i now have court date of 27/04/07. have just started to look through all the paperwork everyone has talkked about on this site.

do i need to print absolutely everything 3x as i dont even understand half of it and it all looks like gobbldy gook to me! i wouldnt even know what i was to talk about if i had to go into court with all that.

please help

 

 

Highly unlikely you will need to this - if they staill ahven't settled by say 3rd week of March then reconsider what you will need.

[shelbel1]

thanks gizmo-shall i wait until 2 1/2 weeks before court date to start preparing court bundle then do you think, if it does go to court how do i get a court buddy