Claiming on a Business account? Lets join forces?

[steven4064]

[pedantic remark]It was never actually a criminal offence[/pedantic remark]

[MARTIN3030]

Hmn I was always led to believe that it was Steven-in fact I got this info from CAG in the early days.

[MARTIN3030]

The internet seems to be full of such thoughts.....heres one from not too far away !!

 

 

As you will know, under the Consumer Credit Act 1974, Section 78(6) states:

If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1) -

(a) He is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement; and (b) If the default continues for one month he commits an offence.

A judge is not permitted to make any enforcement order unless the creditor can provide a signed true copy of the original credit agreement. This means that unless you can produce such an agreement, this alleged debt is not enforceable in law. You had until 01 NOVEMBER 2008 to provide me with the signed true copy I requested. After that date you entered into default of my request.

The time limits, which are laid down in the Consumer Credit (Prescribed Periods for Giving Information) Regulations 1983 are clear. You must supply an executed credit agreement within 12 working days of a proper CCA request. If you fail to comply with a legitimate request the account enters a default situation and if you fail to comply after a further 30 days you commit an offence. You entered into a default on 01 NOVEMBER 2008 and subsequently committed a criminal offence on 20 NOVEMBER 2008

 

 

From a thread on MSE.

[steven4064]

I put it in a post once and was told it was wrong by zootscoot or someone of that elevation - apparently it was a summary offence (don't ask me what that actually means )

[MARTIN3030]

Hmn ok I wont.

[TheyrCriminals]

Hi Guys,

 

Could I just ask what are people's thoughts on the best means of enforcing non-compliance of a CCA request?

 

TheyrCriminals

[MARTIN3030]

Depends what you mean by "Best means".....

Theres only 2 ways-either via the FOS or the Courts.

The FOS are snowed under and their backlogs are hampering enforcement action.

The Court route therefore is probably the quickest option.

Its not totally clear what the implications might be as regards the Chester Courts requests for scrutiny in the Commercial Courts-although this is expected to deal with enforceability so should not affect those seeking to be provided with the agreements-which of course is your right.

Basically would involve you asking the Court to issue an order.

The usual pre-action protocols would need to be observed-and if possible you should try to get a final response in writing.

Edited May 17, 2009 by MARTIN3030

[TheyrCriminals]

Hi Martin,

 

Thanks for that.

 

TheyrCriminals

[SHELBELLE]

Hi Guys

 

I have ben reading this most of the afternoon and am still unsure whether I am able to submit a claim for a Business Bank Account for a Ltd Company that has gone into liquidation?

 

Lloyds again, forced to put overdraft on to a secured business loan..long story.

 

Just wanted to know as now personal debt due to guarantee being given??

 

Thanks

 

S.B.

[GuidoT]

No point if the firm has gone into liquidation and you are probably prevented from doing such without the liquidator's consent in any event.

 

Not to mention the difficulties with business claims generally, some of which you will have picked up from here.

 

The personal guarantee position could result in an interesting situation though. Certainly I would counterclaim for the charges if they commenced against you.

 

Notwithstanding the liquidation point I would not, for now, commence against them as that will be a sure way to get them to counterclaim against you for the the recovery of the overdraft / loan.

Edited May 18, 2009 by GuidoT

[MARTIN3030]

I see you have a thread going for another Lloyds account-is this one a personal one ?

[SHELBELLE]

Thanks Guido again!!! It's just I have a complaint with the FO and Info Commisioner regarding this Business account, the OR is fine with it but has stated any compensaion or refund in interest will be divided between them and myself on a pre and post liquidation basis. So I thought while I am at it I may aswell put a claim in for the unlawful charges??? It will reduce the debt in any case.

 

Martin

 

Hi yes I have a claim for my personal account and this one is the business account, although it has become personal as they are calling upon the debt under the personal guarantee.

 

S.B.

[MARTIN3030]

Nothing to stop you filing a claim-although the big problem is what you will be putting in your claim particulars (to support it from a legal edge)

You wont have the benefit of unfair consumer contract terms-and the penalties under common law have also been ruled out.These are the headaches that we are working around and its clearly something almost all other business claimants are doing too.

[SHELBELLE]

Martin

 

Ok thanks for that.

 

My hands are a little tied at the moment as Lloyds refused to provide my statements, hence the complaint with the Info Commisioner who as indicated that they are at fault as the debt is now personal.

 

I think I will give the IC, a quick call to see what the state of play is now.

Thanks again.

 

S.B.

[MARTIN3030]

No problem.

I am still waiting the response from the OFT as to whether they can give any indication that they will also be assessing business charges for fairness.

Its not much help to those yet to claim-but could put a stop to those banks looking to get existing claim stays lifted so they can try to strike them out as no cause of action.

[Andrea51]

Hi Photoman

Just read your reply to Ibys. Very interesting, been looking for details of reclaiming business charges £6500 and found this forum its cracking !.

 

Last year agreed with my bus. manager to repay half my overdraft £3500 and the balance of the same amount 6 months later in November 2008. Have a letter from him agreeing to this. O/D renewal date 31st March 08. Had a letter 27th March wanted the o/d repayed all of it by 31st March.

Cut a long story short regarding phone calls etc including threatning to close my business accoount , the bank (lloyds) arranged to restructure my then secured business loan, overdraft and personal loan to a complete new loan to come out of my personal account. Told them i only had 5 months on my personal loan to pay and not to include it and as i could pay it off if i was'nt using the money to pay off half the o/draft . No it had to be done that day Monday 31st March so somebody brought it round to my house at 10 th 7 in the evening when i had finished work. Tried to cancel it the next morning as the loan £603 included ppi of £177. Was told could,nt cancel as the loan would be restructed to an APR of 22 % and would be £700 per month this was on April 1st ( i know) at 8.50 in the morning.

 

Sorry its a tad long but feel very bullied by them. At the moment trying to cancel the ppi again and on speaking to the loan department they agree the loan has been misold and have asked me which branch was it and did i have names Oh yes i certainly do. They have told me to go to the FOS but just waiting for the wheels of progress as they are still looking at it.

 

So now going for everything loan ppi's and bank charges.

 

Andrea

[slick132]

Hi ACB,

 

Welcome to CAG.

 

I've sent you a Private Message

[TheyrCriminals]

Hi Guys,

 

My friend wrote to Natwest making a request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974. He asked for a copy of the terms and conditions and agreement he signed for two accounts he has with them. He enclosed a cheque for £2 to cover the legal cost for the bank to produce the information. Natwest have written back stating that as they are two different accounts he has to supply them with two separate cheques for £1. Is this a joke? Can they do this? Surely two quid is two quid and covers the cost? Are they just being awkward?

 

TheyrCriminals

[photoman]

Hi Guys,

 

My friend wrote to Natwest making a request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974. He asked for a copy of the terms and conditions and agreement he signed for two accounts he has with them. He enclosed a cheque for £2 to cover the legal cost for the bank to produce the information. Natwest have written back stating that as they are two different accounts he has to supply them with two separate cheques for £1. Is this a joke? Can they do this? Surely two quid is two quid and covers the cost? Are they just being awkward?

 

TheyrCriminals

 

Yes, certainly sounds like they are being obstructive.

 

Get him to comply with their request anyhow, and if and when he takes any actions as a result of receiving (or not) the CCA's then keep the letter, and present it as evidence of their obstructive efforts.

[slick132]

Alternatively, speak to the ICO and get their opinion.

 

If necessary complain to the ICO by letter, enclosing a copy of the bank's letter.

 

Obstructive and petty !!

[Rhia]

Subbing. Have a very old claim to make will need advice and will start own thread.

[MARTIN3030]

Good

[TINK660]

Have there been any developments yet in the way forward for business account claimers. I have a hardship case with Nat West and the charges with 8% interest amount to approx £22,000.

[MARTIN3030]

Can you say what periods the charges cover ?

Also what steps have you taken up to now ?

[TINK660]

charges cover 1996 - 2001

have submitted hardship application, received response that they are not dealing with claim due to not falling under scope of UCTR