Claiming on a Business account? Lets join forces?

[keithandjen1]

just noticed this thread. i have a pre-lim hearing against scabbey abbey on the 24th august in romford. Mine is a business claim for a sole trader account; is it likely to be stayed?

also, i was told i don't need any paperwork, but surely some is advisable, isn't it?

the claim is for about £1000, like many people, i turned down 65%, probably that was a bit rash in the light of events, eh.

[Celicaman]

Who told you you dont need any paperwork, ring the court & ask them to confirm.

I would take basic stuff anyway in case, IE copies of summary charges sheet, etc.

Make sure Judge knows it is for a business claim if they try to stay claim.

Business Claims are not same as personal claims as we dont rely on the UTCCR so claims will not be effected by OFT claim as that is what they are using to fight the charges.

If not already allocated to small claims, ask judge to allocate to small claims

Celicaman

[TUTTSI]

Hi

Business claims should not be affected by the OFT Test Case as you are not reying on the UTCCR's. But knowing the courts and the banks they will try it on and put it in the same caticgory. You can always make a request to set aside the stay for a cost of £35, but hopefully in your case it should not be necessary.

DS

[keithandjen1]

thanks ever so much guys......it was the court employee i spoke to on the phone who said i didn't need any paperwork as it was just a pre-lim hearing. to be honest i was going to take some( schedules etc.)anyway, but i was kinda hoping that they would settle before; i can't see it now, but you never know......

[Muffintop]

Hya Im waiting to file my claim via n1 at cc, all ready to rock but cant seem to get a definite answer re a poc for a trading as buss account, same as a sole trader. heard photoman was putting something new together expecially for a lloyds bus account. can anyone help me as dont want to leave it too long but also dont want to jump in. cheers skeggsy (ps my signature thing seems to have disappeared and its there but not coming out, any idears? SKEGGSY

[photoman]

I have PM'd you skeggsy, but for the benefit of all who are viewing this thread and may be confused, or think there is a new POC in the pipeline, or should hold fire on their claims, I am posting a response to your post here.

 

I am personally not working on a new POC for Business claims specifically in response to the OFT case, as IMHO I don't think any modification is really necessary.

 

Others may be working on new POC's, but these are predominantly orientated towards consumer claims, so care should be taken if using them in whole or as part of a business claim POC.

 

I think the current POC's in use by Business claimants are sufficient.

 

My own view (shared by many other business claimants) is that as the basis in law for the OFT case is consumer specific, it should in theory not have a bearing upon Business claims.

 

As such, we do not need to amend our POC's, and should instead be discussing and preparing our responses to any applications for stays by the defence that cite the OFT case.

 

When responding to the defence we need to be able to put forward our reasonings against a stay being granted.

eg;

Our claim is not based upon consumer laws such as the UTCCR etc, whereas instead the OFT case actually is.

Thus, as the outcome of such a case should have no bearing, influence or relevance upon the matters at hand, our own case should be allowed to proceed.

 

So, everyone, use the time between submitting your POC and receipt of defence to look into and compose such arguments.

 

PM

[monkey_man]

I have realised that I haven't claimed for overdraft fees which I am bound to have been charged when cheques have been honoured etc as I read somewhere to limit my claim to under £5000 as it would be easier on MCOL. After being advised the N1 route can I now add these fees to my claim before filing and would I need to inform A&L when I reject their offer which all claims recieved after the test case was announced? Thanks again for the help and sorry but i'm not the best in taking in new knowledge!

[GuidoT]

I have responded on your thread. Please only ask your question once and stick to your thread:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/alliance-leicester/85704-business-account-alliance-leicester-2.html#post1065502

[Muffintop]

Hya Im waiting to file my claim via n1 at cc, all ready to rock but cant seem to get a definite answer re a poc for a trading as buss account, same as a sole trader. heard photoman was putting something new together expecially for a lloyds bus account. can anyone help me as dont want to leave it too long but also dont want to jump in. cheers skeggsy (ps my signature thing seems to have disappeared and its there but not coming out, any idears? SKEGGSY

thanks guys, will you check my thread skeggs n nailard v lloys bus acc

have posted a poc on there waiting to post it off, think it came from french connection who got it from gary mod, it seems a bit short but guess that may be ok. its a trading as acc. cheers skeggsy

[Celicaman]

Skeggsy,

Sigs only appear when your post is over a certain size, IE when more text is in it, so like this post now my sig does not appear, You gotta learn to waffle more like me LOL:D

 

CM

[groovycaz]

Hi all

Today I recieved the Cooperative Business Banks Defence, they neither admitting or denying my claim until they recieve copies of my statements, which crossed in the post with their defence, they claiming that my entire claim is statute barred and are asking for a preliminary hearing of the limitation issue so that the matter can be dealt with in the most fair and cost effective way, better PM a mod with my claim details..Gc

[PeterAnderson]

Did they refer to WHICH (or should that read WHAT - oh grammar) statute they say bars it ??

[groovycaz]

Yes, because the entirety of the claim arose more than 6 years prior to the issue of proceedings and the claimant seeks to rely on s32(1)(b) of the limitation act..Gc

[TUTTSI]

Yes, because the entirety of the claim arose more than 6 years prior to the issue of proceedings and the claimant seeks to rely on s32(1)(b) of the limitation act..Gc

Grovycat, what interest are you relying on 8% or contractual/compounded!

DS

[groovycaz]

I used some of the POCs that peteranderson posted on photomans thread and submitted 3 spreadsheets included CCI at the unauthorised rate of 34.49% which was the rate I was charged as I never had an overdraft also as an alternative, their authorised rate and 8%..Gc

[TUTTSI]

I used some of the POCs that peteranderson posted on photomans thread and submitted 3 spreadsheets included CCI at the unauthorised rate of 34.49% which was the rate I was charged as I never had an overdraft also as an alternative, their authorised rate and 8%..Gc

 

and how back are you claiming!

[groovycaz]

from 1996 I have all my bank statements..Gc

[Muffintop]

thanks guys, will you check my thread skeggs n nailard v lloys bus acc

have posted a poc on there waiting to post it off, think it came from french connection who got it from gary mod, it seems a bit short but guess that may be ok. its a trading as acc. cheers skeggsy

 

still no response on my poc waiting to send it off, pse someone check it out skeggs n nailard v lloyds buss account

 

cheers.

[PeterAnderson]

Gc

 

Please remember that I only posted the POC's up here as a draft; now I cannot see much of a problem, as I could only find on here POC's for a private a/c (using UTCCR's) a business a/c (using Common Law & cases to be relied on) and what was basically a private a/c POC using the Limitation Acts for 6+yrs.

 

I wanted a POC (still do) for a business a/c + 6+yrs; so all I did was cut & paste from those templates and added a bit from this 'wonderful post'

Bank Charges - Lloyds TSB Bank plc

 

So all I did was add the word - Business in front of the word account; add an extra two stated cases relating to Common Law from the above link - and that was it really it.

 

I did have a PM from a highly respected person here that my POC in relation to the Limitations issue was too long and some bits more suited to a witness statement and the PM said that the 'draft' POC was more weighted to the limitations aspect rather than the main contention - common law; but hey-ho I only cut & pasted from templates here, not changing anything which could even mildly be contentious.

 

Now the only contentious bit I can see is that you are claiming CI; this I have seen commented by GaryH (MOD) as treading on dangerous ground as you have to be very very clear on the legal issues regarding CI. There are some threads here of people who have won CI - but actually my 'guess' is that the bank did not (will not) turn up at court and the case was won by default. Photoman (as far as I know) is claiming CI; look for posts from innocent as well as he/she has drawn up a very detailed POC which actually gives the judge several options 1) pay the charges + 8% S69, 2) 1 + CI and there was a third option which I have forgotten, anyway the bottom line on innocent POC was that all options were available

[JGJ]

Just took my AQ Court Friday 10/07/07. Rec'd letter to-day from

MARTINEAU JOHNSON - who seem to be acting for Lloyds on Business Account Claims. Letter Without Prejudice:)

 

reads: Our client has further reviewed your claim and has decided to make a last effort to settle the claim. Our client will not however refund interest which has been legitimately charged to the account. This interest and the statutory interest thereon, has been excluded by our client as it is not recoverable and does not form a valid part of an overcharging claim.

 

The Bank is therefore willing to make a final effort to settle your claim on the following basis.

 

1. The amount of £_ _____ will be credited against your liability to the Bank which is currently being managed by the Bank's Customer Debt Management Dept. As this liability exceeds the amount of your claim there will be no payment out to you. Your liability will however be reduced by this amount. This sum is made up of fees and charges of

£ ___and interest of £_____ and the court fee of £250.

 

2. The credit will be in full and final settlement of this claim

then the usual sign these terms etc.

 

1. as my liability to the bank was a Business Loan -CAN THEY DO

THIS ?

 

2. The Bank closed my Account Oct 2006

 

3. Have been in contact with LLoyds Customer Debt Management Dept.

who as we all no is SCM - and at the time told them i was requesting bank charge refund - was told to leave it until i have my Bank charges sorted out one way or the other.

 

Can any one offer any help or advice on this please:)

[groovycaz]

Gc

 

Please remember that I only posted the POC's up here as a draft; now I cannot see much of a problem, as I could only find on here POC's for a private a/c (using UTCCR's) a business a/c (using Common Law & cases to be relied on) and what was basically a private a/c POC using the Limitation Acts for 6+yrs.

 

I wanted a POC (still do) for a business a/c + 6+yrs; so all I did was cut & paste from those templates and added a bit from this 'wonderful post'

Bank Charges - Lloyds TSB Bank plc

 

So all I did was add the word - Business in front of the word account; add an extra two stated cases relating to Common Law from the above link - and that was it really it.

 

I did have a PM from a highly respected person here that my POC in relation to the Limitations issue was too long and some bits more suited to a witness statement and the PM said that the 'draft' POC was more weighted to the limitations aspect rather than the main contention - common law; but hey-ho I only cut & pasted from templates here, not changing anything which could even mildly be contentious.

 

Now the only contentious bit I can see is that you are claiming CI; this I have seen commented by GaryH (MOD) as treading on dangerous ground as you have to be very very clear on the legal issues regarding CI. There are some threads here of people who have won CI - but actually my 'guess' is that the bank did not (will not) turn up at court and the case was won by default. Photoman (as far as I know) is claiming CI; look for posts from innocent as well as he/she has drawn up a very detailed POC which actually gives the judge several options 1) pay the charges + 8% S69, 2) 1 + CI and there was a third option which I have forgotten, anyway the bottom line on innocent POC was that all options were available

 

Hi Peter,

I slightly changed some of the wording on your POC, to suit my own claim, I was more interested in the 3 interest options and the wording used, because the Coop had previously made an offer to Jan 2000 including CI, I wanted to include CI in my claim but also give the DJ the other options, I also used for my POC some wording from photomans POC..Gc

[JGJ]

Hi Peter

thanks for all info. will check on other threds as suggested. Do you know if they can take my claim money to pay of my Business loan ???

[Muffintop]

I have seen a letter on this account lifting a stay for a buss account but is there one been published for anticipating a stay and submitting along with n1? skeggsy

[PeterAnderson]

JGJ - Hi,

 

As you know I am not an expert but have been hanging around here for tooo long; but from what I have read they will not touch the loan - after all you/they did agree the loan, which I presume was for £xx paid over xx-period and in any case it would seem to make much business seance as they will be charging you (greedy bank) interest rates.

 

The only time I have seen on here banks taking money back was from overdrafts and for the very occasional banks closing accounts down - I presume you have a parachute account - just in case

[PeterAnderson]

Skeggy - Hi,

 

You could try this letter I modified from photoman's post here on removal of a stay: -

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

You -v- XXXXX Bank Plc

 

I write in relation to the matters as detailed on my N1 and my Particulars of Claim.

 

I am aware of the recent directions given by Lord Justice Moore-Bick to Designated Civil Judges on the issue of how to manage live Bank Charges cases. It is understood that he considers that in most cases it would be appropriate to stay proceedings pending a decision of the OFT action."

 

I respectfully request that should the defendant apply for a stay in this case that this should not be granted. This is upon the contention, that as the central focus and grounds for the OFT’s case is to determine whether or not the charges are subject to the test of reasonableness, as required under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations (UTCCR 99), then it is not of any consequence to the basis of my claim in this case.

 

As a Business account claimant my claim does not include any reference to nor make any reliance upon the UTCCR. As such, it would serve no purpose to delay proceedings in order to await the outcome of a case that would have no bearing or relevance upon this case.

 

As such I respectfully request that any application for a stay be declined so that this case may proceed without further delay.

 

 

Yours faithfully

 

Worth a try -