Lloyds TSB SCaM Defence, In Full (including their typos)

[sarah73076]

Just thought people might like to see this in full. From what I've read, they use the same defence on nearly everyone. I've tried, to the best of my ability, to leave in all of their weird typos and wonky formatting so you can sneer at it with me!

 

1. The Defendant Lloyds TSB Bank plc (the Bank) is a Bank whose registered office is 25 Gresham Street, London ECV2 7HN. It is admitted that the Claimant has been a customer of the Bank at all material times.

2. By opening an account with the Bank, the customer enters into a commercial arrangement with the Bank for the provision of banking services. The Bank is entitled, as part of that arrangement, to charge for those services. At account opening a customer is provided with details of the Bank?s charges, currently in a leaflet a guide to our banking charges. By using the account, the customer acknowledges that the charges are incorporated into the contract. For personal customers, a number of services are provided for free, notwithstanding that they are an expense to the Bank. Such services presently include, but are not limited to, providing;

cheques

bank statements

the facility to make payments by direct debit and standing order

debit cards

ATMs (cash machines)

3. By maintaining the account in credit, or within any limit agreed with the Bank, the customer may avoid most if not all charges. If the customer fails to ensure that there are sufficient funds in the account to cover payments, whether by cheque, debit card, standing order or direct debit, the customer makes a request for a payment to be made from the Bank?s own funds. If the Bank makes payment, or returns the payment, it provides a service as specified in the leaflet and makes a charge in accordance with the terms of the contract. On page 1 of the leaflet, the Bank explains that ?there are normally no charges for everyday banking at Lloyds TSB when your account is in credit.

When you use an agreed overdraft, there is no monthly fee and we only charge interest on the amount you are overdrawn each day. Where you go overdrawn without an agreement or where you use special services, such as copy statements, we will make a charge. This guide explains how these charges work, and when they will apply.

If you want to use a service that we haven?t listed, we?ll tell you the cost of that service before you give us the go-ahead?.

4. There is no breach of contract; the charge cannot therefore be a penalty, consequently there is no requirement that the charge be a pre-estimate of the Bank?s loss.

5. The customer is given advance warning of charges being imposed; statements show the charges, if any, the customer has incurred during the course of a month, and which will appear as debits on the following month?s statement. Customers are warned by letter when they go overdrawn or over their agreed limit without arrangement with the Bank. If the customer fails to remedy the position, and payments such as standing orders and direct debits are refused then again the customer is warned by letter.

6. The charges are fair and reasonable, and it is denied that they are unlawful.

7. The customer is notified of the charges in plain intelligible language at the conclusion of the contract, and on each monthly statements. The charge are terms which relate to the price payable by the customer for a service provided by the Bank, and pursuant to Regulation 6 of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999, are not subject to the assessment of fairness.

8. In the premises:

8.1 the charges are for banking services, and are not damages nor a penalty;

8.2 the Bank is entitled by contract to impose the charges, which are fair and reasonable;

8.3 it is denied that the charges are unlawful or contravene any statute or regulation.

9. The Claimant?s claim is denied in its entirety. It is further denied that the Claimant is entitled to the sum claimed or to any sum from the Bank.

[sarah73076]

My thoughts: Someone has clearly mixed up the ' key with the ?

 

And some other random thoughts:

2---I take it we're meant to stop moaning about these charges because they give us cheques which can hardly be used anywhere these days? And I don't get statements, I'm paperless!

 

3---I love how they've clearly just cut and pasted the text of the leaflet

 

4---huuuhhhh? don't really get their logic

 

5---If I warn someone by letter that I'm going to punch them in the face at the end of the month, it's still wrong

 

6--deny away.....

 

7---"We don't have to be fair"

[datxman]

I love it, it is the same response as mine and with the same typo?s ha ha:D

[LANGERS]

just recieved the exact same response today, at least they are consistant in somthing.

[jcd34]

Its the same defence i received and after phoning SCM yesterday it seems that that is their entire defence - i asked them to send me the court documents they will be relying on in court ( 28th feb ) and according to the `charming` man on the phone `` you have our defence already and that is all we are relying on `` .

 

Hmmm.... doesnt stand a chance against my 140 page court bundle !!

[Elmo South]

Have you had a letter from Lloyds Customer Services saying they think all the charges are OK but they'll pay you an ex gratia payment? This rather puts a spoke in the defence that they won't pay anything!!

[Tjones73]

Parts of this are exactly the same as the defence they submitted for me, even down to the typos, someone really should point out so SCM that ' and ? are different!

 

I also got that my claim was vague and should be resubmitted, I dealt with that the way this site advises.

 

Anyway Good Luck, hope they pull their fingers out and are a bit quciker with you then they have been with me.

[tim2718281]

"... the customer makes a request for a payment to be made from the Bank?s own funds. If the Bank makes payment, or returns the payment, it provides a service as specified in the leaflet and makes a charge in accordance with the terms of the contract."

 

And they've put that in writing!

 

The first sentence is saying the customer is applying for credit. The second sentence is saying that the charge is associated with that application for credit.

 

There are rules about charges for credit; according to my understanding of the law, these charges must be included in calculations of APR.

 

The banks do not include these charges when calculating the APR.

 

Let's give an example,

 

Suppose you go overdrawn without authorisation by £100, do nothing for a year, then repay it. And suppose the banks advertised interest rate is 20% APR. What should happen is at the end of the year, the total amount outstanding should be £120.

 

However, if the bank imposes a £30 "service charge" at the beginning. Your account will be overdrawn by £130, and the bank will charge its 20% on that. The interest will come to £26, so at the end of the year the account will be overdrawn by £56.

 

The total charge for credit will be £56, and according to my interpretation of the law, the APR in this case woiuld be 56%, not the 20% the bank said it would be.

 

Perhaps my interpretation of the law for calculating APRs is wrong, and the "service charges" should not be included in the total charge for credit. Here's the OFT web document:

 

http://www.oft.gov.uk/NR/rdonlyres/19342C6E-BB3E-41E9-AA15-29054CD31D77/0/oft144.pdf

 

The complicated-looking formulas can be ignored; they are routine mathematician's jargon.

 

The important thing is, if the bank charges were for the services the banks say they are, do the regulations require them to be included when calculating APR?

 

Tim