1st Credit/mbna... Applying For Finalcharging Order. Advice Please

[tifo]

Re: your CCJ from 1st Credit - was this granted in default, i.e. did you contest it, or agree to it, or not receive notice, or just ignore it?

 

Pam, i have a separate thread for my 1st Credit account so i don't want to hijack this one.

 

I was going through my Council debt advice centre to all my creditors.

 

Basically 1st credit wanted more than i can afford and said unless i pay this then its court, which is what happened.

 

But before court they said if i agree voluntarily to a charging order they would accept my low payment and also even if i did not agree and they got it they would let me pay my amount. However, they got an interim order and then we had a hearing, at which the first remit was to look at my payment proposal and the second one the charging order (i had previously complained to the court that the judgment in default did not look at my circumstances).

 

Their agent said at court he was not there for the payment proposal but only the charging order, so judge said OK, no payment proposal discussion and you get your charge.

 

Basically they conned me and the judge was not too understanding as he should have said to them to send someone who can discuss payments as that was the first remit for the hearing.

 

At no stage did my debt advisor tell me all the things i know now such as OFT debt guidelines, CCA 1974 s.78 etc so i lost out to a few CCJ a few years ago. In fact, he used to ask me 'they want £xx what shall i say'? Anyway, i stopped using him and do my own research now (with the great help from this site).

[InKogneeToh]

This is to show the Judge that thereshope is trying to get the information she needs and also make MBNA and 1st Credit realise she is serious. She went into court without any supporting evidence that these companies are being obstructive. She has to show she is doing to something to get this information. I am going on the lifeline a Judge handed another CAGger to redo her defence. It would be wrong not show thereshope's Judge that everything is being done to get the documentation. if they will not provide through and SAR, they can bring the Agreement into court and let the Judge rule if it should be enforced. thereshope's case is exactly the same as the one I am working on except thershope has had the CCj applied and the charging order applied for. When the other CAGger issued the N1 for non compliance MBNA repaid all the penealty charges and made the debt to the DCA considerably less, The Judge has given MBNA until 19 April to produce the documentation. MBNA has now left the DCA which bought the debt out on a limb. The debt they bought is now considerably less than what was being claimed.

 

Maybe I am not explaining this clearly. No documentation, no case to answer. Only difference thereshope admitted the debt, because she was advised to by CCCS. The judge in the case I am referring to told the DCA they had better get MBNA involved and prove their case.

 

This is why the non-compliance is being filed. The judge advised us in the other case to do this.

 

Hi

 

I can understand why this is a necessary course of action in the other case, but in TH's circumstances I don't see how proof that the creditor/DCA is now not complying with her requests can have any influence on whether or not the charging order should be made final.

 

IMO, whether or not there has ever been an enforceable agreement and whether or not there may be unlawful charges included in TH's debt, the indisputable fact remains that (as it stands at the moment) she admitted the entire debt and a CCJ was granted on that basis.This is what gave the DCA the right to apply for the interim charging order.

 

It's possible that the judge might attach a condition to the final charging order that TH may apply to have the sum outstanding reduced at a later date if she is successful in an unlawful charges claim and may also order the creditor/DCA to supply her with all relevant documentation so she can make her claim but I don't see that he has much choice other than to make the order final whilst the CCJ remains in place.

 

Sincere apologies if I'm missing the point and testing your patience! I'm not feeling too good today and the grey matter is a bit mushy!!

 

Regards, Pam

[InKogneeToh]

Pam, i have a separate thread for my 1st Credit account so i don't want to hijack this one.

 

.

 

Hi

 

Can you post a link to that thread so I can take a look?

 

Regards, Pam

[thereshope!]

I have just spent ages posting a reply and I keyed a wrong button on my puter and its disappeared:mad:

 

So in a nutshell, thankyou ladies !

 

Fantastic !.Thought we had the swines with the amendments.

 

Ok .I am going to apply for set aside and file for non compliance on both MBNA and 1ST Credit.

 

I want to file these claims tomorrow at 10 (no car today) so if any one good with POC wording could help me compose the relevant facts I would be eternally grateful to them !

 

Thankyou all

 

Hope xx

[thereshope!]

would someone please have a read of the wording I am going to use on N244 Application Notice to set aside CCJ please.

 

In part C

 

I wish to rely on the following evidence in support of this application:

 

The defendant had misled myself the claimant, and the court into believing the contractual provision of the agreement was valid by stating default charges were to cover costs when in fact they were used to generate material profit. By letting the defendant profit from this misstatement would be unjust.

I believe I have asked for a set aside of the application in a reasonable time and only found out that the charges were penalties recently ,due to media attention and the OFT report.

 

On discovering that disproportionate penalty charges were deemed unlawful , I sought advice from the National Debtline and the Consumer Action Group ,and was advised to make this application

 

 

Will this be ok,does anyone know ?

 

I've played around with a few words, but in general this is the argument Paulwltn used in his set aside argument,and he won(thanks paul !)

 

Feel free to edit/add/amend where you see fit !

 

Hope xx

[thereshope!]

oops !

posted twice

[thereshope!]

Hi everyone

 

Is there a set protocol to follow when issuing N1 for non compliance ?

 

For example, after the 40 day deadline had expired,I sent MBNA a letter warning them that I believed they were using delay tactics to avoid supplying me with SAR, and that I would seek remedy by way of court order and a complaint to the ICO.

This letter was sent on the the 26th Feb 07 and I stated they had 7 days to comply.

 

So I think this would be deemed acceptable by the court ?

 

With regard to 1st Credit, I havent written to them since the 11th Jan 07, which was a CCA request.

 

Would it be deemed unreasonable to file N1 for non compliance when I havent given them a warning to comply, ?

 

Should it be up to me to bring their non compliance to their attention,or is it reasonable to expect a financial organisation to know their obligations to their customers ?

 

Just wondering aloud really,as I dont want the court to think I am being unfair.

 

Time is of the essence though, and my 28 day countdown will have begun in earnest.

 

What to do .....

[Guest Battleaxe]

No set protocol, just fill in the N1, make sure the court staff know it is nfor non-compliance. it costs £50.00 to file, make sure you include your costs and then hit them with it. The court will set the timelines for them to respond.

[The Lantana]

Okay, Ive been mulling on this in the pub and here are my thoughts...

 

1) I was delighted by IKG's post suggesting the outlawing of these 'charging orders' was on the cards. Imagine my horror when I saw my hopes were dashed and they can still carry on.

 

2) We all agree we should pay our LAWFULL debts if possible.

 

3) These borrowings were unsecured money, and at no time did we sign a 'my home is at risk' deal.

 

On this basis I think our only plan of attack is as follows...

 

a) Go for Judge to rule a very small minimum repayment at the outset of the CCJ.

 

b) Resist any charging order, but most especially any order for sale (obviously). The basis is breach of the human rights act (I think protocol 8, but I'm not sure).

 

The lender cannot argue that a delay for his money is a breach of is HR's, after all he gets his money in the end. Nobody should pay the price of homelesness for a cca74 default, and to make somebody homeless in such circumstances is a breach of the intentions that lay behind the original act.

 

The act started out against the 'yes car credit's' of the day and now people are being chucked out of their homes - this is absolutely grotesque!!!

 

IMHO

 

 

Regards

 

Lantana

[thereshope!]

Hi Lantana,

 

These organisations have no scruples,as I see it !

 

I think the argument that the creditor will come back with is they will force the issue of a charging order because if someone is paying monthly ,great, but what happens if that person then files for bankruptcy ?

 

The creditor knows that the only way they are going to get full payment is by having a charging order in place.

They only get a few pence in the pound back otherwise.

 

I think that more and more creditors will apply for charging orders soon,as more people file for bankruptcy:mad:

 

Sorry for the rambling,but I was talking with my o/h last night and he said it was just a matter of time before charging orders would be arriving on the door mat ,from the rest of them....

 

I didnt sleep too well after our little chat:evil:

[Guest Battleaxe]

TH,

 

It's another day to do battle. of course a mass complaint could be started regarding 1st credit. This just might make them slow down and of course the FOS will charge them to be investigated.

[thereshope!]

BA,

 

Now there's a thought !

 

I think I will start a thread in the next day or so(once i've filed for set aside and non compliance)

 

I bet there are loads of us in the same boat !

[thereshope!]

Quick question please !

 

Got brain freeze !

 

I have decided to add costs to my claim and have put in a covering letter asking for

 

4x letters@£8.85=£27.40

SAR Fee @£10.00

Hourly rate @£9.25 p/h x 30 =£277.50

TOTAL= £314.90

 

 

Now I want to add the S69 8% INT and this is where I am getting really confused lol!!!

 

Instead of using a spready, i tried to use the MSE 8% calculator and it says the interest is 10 p !

 

Surely not !

 

What have I done wrong ?

 

Is it because I put yesterdays date ?

 

What date do I put in ?

 

It,s not as straightforward as doing a bank charges N1,because I have charged the hourly rate ,which has been spread over the period between january and now.

 

Have I just answered my own question there ?!

 

Do I calculate the 8% from january when I sent the SAR ,do I calclate it from end of Feb when they hadnt complied with request, or is it something entirely different !!!

 

Arghhhhhhhh !

 

Had enough now

[sequenci]

 

Is it because I put yesterdays date ?

 

What date do I put in ?

 

 

yup.. it's becuase yesterday's date was used so so far you've earned 8/365% interest!

[thereshope!]

so what date do I put in ?

 

With this being a claim for non compliance do I put the date that MBNA breached the 40 day deadline ?

[sequenci]

so what date do I put in ?

 

With this being a claim for non compliance do I put the date that MBNA breached the 40 day deadline ?

 

what day did all the fees you are claiming arrive from?

 

i.e. the SAR request, when was that sent? it would be 8% from that date.

 

i would imagine that some of your fees may arrive from different days, you could use the same spreadsheet that people use for their bank charges to calculate on-going amounts?

[thereshope!]

Thanks sequenci(sp?)

 

Most of the research was done early on,so will put the day SAR was sent,which was 11th JAN.

 

Thanks

 

Hope xx

[thereshope!]

Quick update

 

IT'S DONE !!

Just back from court where I filed N1 for non compliance on both 1st Credit and MBNA, and filed an N244 for a set aside of CCJ.

 

It worked out really well as the clerk told me that they had just issued the date for the final charging order hearing and I managed to get her to slot the set aside hearing in before-hand !

 

So if all goes how I want it to, there will be no need for the charging order hearing !

[Rhia]

TH - excellent work and obviously not a moment too soon. Now take a big breath and all you can do is wait for the next part to roll along.

However as you have some more issues to address start on those and then your OH will start to feel a bit more relaxed. A real milestone for you.

[thereshope!]

Rhia hun Thank you

 

I feel great !

 

Empowered. Now they can dance to MY tune lol!

 

I got the info you sent me today, but havent had chance to have a good look through it yet.

I will give it the attention it deserves this evening now i've got all the paperwork out the way.

 

Its quite a job in itself doing all this court stuff !

 

I was up and on with it from 0830 and didnt manage to get out the door until after 3pm.

I raced to the court lol.

 

Take care

xx

[Rhia]

It really is a great feeling isn't it? To be in the driving seat.

The bits I sent were just that, bits, there's loads more for you but as you can see from the amount of time it took you today it is labour intensive. Anything else you need just yell.

[thereshope!]

Hi all:)

 

I today received Notice of Issue from the court for both MBNA and 1st Credit,for the non-compliance issues !

 

Both deemed served 05 apr and they have until 19 apr to reply.

 

What should I do now ?.Would it be a good idea to chase them up as it would show i'm trying to reach a satisfactory conclusion without a court hearing, or should I just wait ?

 

I was also wondering what I need to be doing with regard to getting a court bundle together for the non-compliance hearings and also my final charging order hearing?

 

Any tips on what I need to include would be great, and I need to make a start this week as I'm going away the following week to see family,and wont be back until the day before the hearing !

 

Phew ! Think thats it for now:)

 

Hope xx

[Guest Battleaxe]

Sit back and wait for them to reply. Then you get a chance to see their defence, then you have another go at their reply on the 19th. This is not the hearing date. it is the date they have to lodge their defence. Just sit back and wait to see what they do. If they don't reply you can the apply for Judgement by default. Enjoy your holiday and then when you come back see what creativity they have been up to.

[thereshope!]

Hi BA:)

 

I love your new avatar very apt !!!

 

OK ,i'll take it easy !

 

Have a good Easter yourself.

 

Love to you both

 

Hope xx

[half ax I]

Just read your thread. Wish I had known of this site when I was dealing with Charging Orders last year. I sincerely hope you get a result on this one.

 

S