Hi All,

[j.barton1]

Hi,

Ive just posted my SAR today for an old a & l account. I am hoping they can send me details as its an old account i dont even have the acc number so fingers crossed xx.

 

Jenny;)

 

S.A.R 05.01.07 Alliance and Leicester

 

Mercantile court date 7th Feb 07 Barclays £1.800

[j.barton1]

Hi, received my sar and as a total i am claiming 2,168 + interest from a&l in about 7yrs. I know there's going to be issues with the 6yr rule so any help would be appreciated. Many thanks

Jenny

[SweetCal]

Cant advise re 6 year rule but I know on the general board there is a big post on it and im sure you can get a lot of advice from that! Good Luck x

[TideTurner]

Jenny, how far back did the statements you received go? When was the account first opened?

[j.barton1]

hi, I cant remember when i opened the acc, but i got sent statements to jun 00, 1st charge jul 00. Hopefully A & L wont be as bad as the barclays claim i have just settled, but that was for less than 6yr.

Jenny

[TideTurner]

Jenny,

 

A couple of ways to do this. The first is to 'test the water' by phoning them and complaining that they haven't provided all details they hold in respect of this matter. The other is to write back, stating that they are still within the 40 day time limit for SAR's, however they have not provided all information to which you are entitled.

 

Tell them you will be making a complaint to the Information Commissioners Office if they do not provide this information. If they still insist they do not have it, request the date and method of destruction / removal from their systems / archives.

 

If it ever posp up in the future you can then refer to any response (or lack of). Also, when you submit your N1 claim, make sure you make reference to the fact that you have requested information, but they have refused or failed to provide it. The Court may then order them to do so under disclosure rules.

 

See other threads I have posted which will give a thorough SAR.

 

Tide

[j.barton1]

Hi I've received a letter from A&L, i assume its a standard response.

"I am sorry if you are dissapionted but as the charges have been raised correctly in line with T&cs they must stand." Blah Blah. "2nd letter here we go.

 

Jenny

[j.barton1]

Hi, Just filed with MCOL....just waiting now.....

 

Jenny

[j.barton1]

Hi I've just received Acknowledgement from A&L, still no mention of sec 32......They intend to defend...apparently.

 

Jenny

[j.barton1]

Hi Ive received a letter saying that i cannot claim before 01 due to sola, i will reply with this...is it okay?

Jenny

 

07.03.07

J McGuirk

Re Claim No 7QZ23978

I received your letter dated 5.03.07.

With regards to the limitations act I quote sec 32,

The period of limitation shall not begin to run until the plaintiff has discovered the fraud, concealment or mistake (as the case may be) or could with reasonable diligence have discovered it. ....

I was not aware these charges were unlawful till the oft made their statements in April 06, therefore my original claim still stands from 01.07.00, as the six years runs from discovery of the fraud, concealment or mistake.

I enclose another copy of my schedule and interest calculations.

Regards,

Jenny Barton.

[chain chick]

I have just had the letter that section 32 (1) doesn't apply in these cases.

 

Oh yeah they do said I, I sent the fax and telephoned her. she must be really busy as it was engaged for a long time!!!

 

Anyway, I said that the judge would not be overly impressed about them quibbling over £7.00 (that's how much is out of time on my claim, from the 1st Feb) It's only because they mucked about that it was late)

 

She said that the judges take the 6 year rule very seriously. Yeah rightho said I we both know you have 14 days to put in the defence so see you in court

 

I wanted to say... for goodness sake just pay up.......

[j.barton1]

Thanks CC, I have been waiting for sola to be mentioned by A&L, still worried about it though!! If I left out what they want its about half my claim roughly 1,500, I wonder what'll happen next?

 

Jenny

[j.barton1]

Hi, Ive received A&Ls defence...i think its the standard

They want me to proove that its a penalty...

Its statute barred....

I cant use sec 32...

I ought to have been aware of the chgs...

 

Whats my next step? i know its not my "job" to proove its a penalty, its their job to proove it isnt, do i do anything now or wait for the court to contact me? Do i need to provide a reply to their defence?

 

Thanks in advance

 

Jenny:|

[j.barton1]

BUMP, Can anyone help???

 

Jenny

[bgqs]

Although your claim is statute barred, you should be attacking this from a different angle.

 

You should look at the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977

 

You should research this act on this forum as I think you will be surprised with your findings

[TideTurner]

I have just had the letter that section 32 (1) doesn't apply in these cases.

 

Oh yeah they do said I, I sent the fax and telephoned her. she must be really busy as it was engaged for a long time!!!

 

Anyway, I said that the judge would not be overly impressed about them quibbling over £7.00 (that's how much is out of time on my claim, from the 1st Feb) It's only because they mucked about that it was late)

 

She said that the judges take the 6 year rule very seriously. Yeah rightho said I we both know you have 14 days to put in the defence so see you in court

 

I wanted to say... for goodness sake just pay up.......

 

A letter from who? The Limitation Act applies to ALL cases in contract. Check again with the Court, are they currently inundated?

 

Tide

[bgqs]

Yep, tide is is right.......The Limitation Act applies to everything...however, as I posted above, do your research as you should be able to put a different slant on the case and make the judge consider whether the initial contract that was entered into was unjust

[TideTurner]

Hi All,

 

Any defence they put in under S5 of the Limitation Act should be counteracted with S32(1)(b) & ©.

 

32 Postponement of limitation period in case of fraud, concealment or mistake

(1) Subject to subsections (3) and (4A) below, where in the case of any action for which a period of limitation is prescribed by this Act, either--

(a) the action is based upon the fraud of the defendant; or

(b) any fact relevant to the plaintiff's right of action has been deliberately concealed from him by the defendant;

or

© the action is for relief from the consequences of a mistake; the period of limitation shall not begin to run until the plaintiff has discovered the fraud, concealment or mistake (as the case may be) or could with reasonable diligence have discovered it. References in this subsection to the defendant include references to the defendant’s agent and to any person through whom the defendant claims and his agent.

(2) For the purposes of subsection (1) above, deliberate commission of a breach of duty in circumstances in which it is unlikely to be discovered for some time amounts to deliberate concealment of the facts involved in that breach of duty.

(3) Nothing in this section shall enable any action--

(a) to recover, or recover the value of, any property; or

(b) to enforce any charge against, or set aside any transaction affecting, any property; to be brought against the purchaser of the property or any person claiming through him in any case where the property has been purchased for valuable consideration by an innocent third party since the fraud or concealment or (as the case may be) the transaction in which the mistake was made took place.

(4) A purchaser is an innocent third party for the purposes of this section--

(a) in the case of fraud or concealment of any fact relevant to the plaintiff’s right of action, if he was not a party to the fraud or (as the case may be) to the concealment of that fact and did not at the time of the purchase know or have reason to believe that the fraud or concealment had taken place; and

(b) in the case of mistake, if he did not at the time of the purchase know or have reason to believe that the

mistake had been made.

(4A) Subsection (1) above shall not apply in relation to the time limit prescribed by section 11A(3) of this Act or in relation to that time limit as applied by virtue of section 12(1) of this Act.

(5) Sections 14A and 14B of this Act shall not apply to any action to which subsection (1)(b) above applies (and accordingly the period of limitation referred to in that subsection, in any case to which either of those sections would otherwise apply, is the period applicable under section 2 of this Act).

440

 

Your case begins from the date you discovered you had been wronged, which in most cases is 6 years (contract) 12 years (mortgage) from the date you first complained to the bank.

 

The Banks have deliberately witheld (concealed) information which you could not have been expected to reveal by law as a layman.

 

Tide

[j.barton1]

Hi, Ive put this together to respond to A&L's defence letter. Is it okay? I wont be posting till monday so any amending anyone thinks is needed.....

 

 

J McGuirk.

I write in response to your letter (LAW/xxxx/JAM/xxxxxx).

The limitation act applies to all cases in contract and is for the judge to decide on the merits of each case.

32 Postponement of limitation period in case of fraud, concealment or mistake

(1) Subject to subsections (3) and (4A) below, where in the case of any action for which a period of limitation is prescribed by this Act, either--

(a) the action is based upon the fraud of the defendant; or

(b) any fact relevant to the plaintiff's right of action has been deliberately concealed from him by the defendant;

or

© the action is for relief from the consequences of a mistake; the period of limitation shall not begin to run until the plaintiff has discovered the fraud, concealment or mistake (as the case may be) or could with reasonable diligence have discovered it. References in this subsection to the defendant include references to the defendant’s agent and to any person through whom the defendant claims and his agent.

(2) For the purposes of subsection (1) above, deliberate commission of a breach of duty in circumstances in which it is unlikely to be discovered for some time amounts to deliberate concealment of the facts involved in that breach of duty.

(3) Nothing in this section shall enable any action--

(a) to recover, or recover the value of, any property; or

(b) to enforce any charge against, or set aside any transaction affecting, any property; to be brought against the purchaser of the property or any person claiming through him in any case where the property has been purchased for valuable consideration by an innocent third party since the fraud or concealment or (as the case may be) the transaction in which the mistake was made took place.

(4) A purchaser is an innocent third party for the purposes of this section--

(a) in the case of fraud or concealment of any fact relevant to the plaintiff’s right of action, if he was not a party to the fraud or (as the case may be) to the concealment of that fact and did not at the time of the purchase know or have reason to believe that the fraud or concealment had taken place; and

(b) in the case of mistake, if he did not at the time of the purchase know or have reason to believe that the

mistake had been made.

(4A) Subsection (1) above shall not apply in relation to the time limit prescribed by section 11A(3) of this Act or in relation to that time limit as applied by virtue of section 12(1) of this Act.

(5) Sections 14A and 14B of this Act shall not apply to any action to which subsection (1)(b) above applies (and accordingly the period of limitation referred to in that subsection, in any case to which either of those sections would otherwise apply, is the period applicable under section 2 of this Act).

440.

The statute begins from the date of discovery. I didn’t know the charges were unlawful till the OFT announcement in April 06 which is when I discovered I had been wronged.

I also ask the defendant to disclose the full nature of its charges and prove that it is not a penalty.

Regards

Jenny Barton

01132xxxxxx

07900xxxxxx

[TideTurner]

Jenny,

 

This may help.

 

Dear Mr McGuirk.

 

Thank you for your letter of the XXXXX.

 

With reference to the charges made to my account, I would be grateful if you would request from the Defendants a full breakdown to include any work or actions carried out by them, and any costs incurred which resulted in their having to make such charges to my account.

 

Where they are reluctant or unable to provide this information, please request details of the charging rate they referenced when they applied these charges.

 

I do not believe that the charges made to my account represent a true reflection of the actual costs incurred by the Defendants and therefore represent unlawful penalties, which are irrecoverable at Common Law. I would request the repayment of all charges made plus interest at the statutory rate of 8% from the time the charges were made.

 

I refer you to S32(1)(b) and © of the Limitation Act 1980.

 

S32(1)(b) any fact relevant to the plaintiff's right of action has been deliberately concealed from him by the defendant;

or

© the action is for relief from the consequences of a mistake; the period of limitation shall not begin to run until the plaintiff has discovered the fraud, concealment or mistake (as the case may be) or could with reasonable diligence have discovered it. References in this subsection to the defendant include references to the defendant’s agent and to any person through whom the defendant claims and his agent.

 

On April 6th 2006, the Office of Fair Trading made a statement outlining what they considered was the maximum amount of costs incurred by the Banks when making such charges.

 

As a result of media coverage given to several actions made for the recovery of what are now regarded as penalties, I discovered that I had been wronged. The Limitation period therefore runs for six years from the date of discovery, which was after the statement made by the Office of Fair Trading.

 

The Defendants have failed or refused to provide information requested of them, and I would be grateful if this information could now be requested under disclosure rules.

 

Yours sincerely

 

Jenny on the block

 

Jenny, it's a bit late for you to be going for contractual interest, but you should at least apply for statutory interest. The Court forms tell you how to work this out, or there may be a template in the Library (spreadsheet).

 

Tide

[j.barton1]

Thanks Tideturner, I had asked for 8% on MCOL and the other letters. A nice interest amount for 6+ yrs.

 

jenny

[TideTurner]

OK J,

 

A good thing about this site is that all opinions are given anonomously, so may be best to leave your name off any future posts.

 

If you amend my letter, post it here so it can help others.

 

Tide

[j.barton1]

Hi All,

 

I have received my AQ today from my local court, N149 very easy to fill in. Ive sent it to court with my £100, and a updated schedule to a&l with all costs. Anyone else received theirs?

 

Jenny

[j.barton1]

Hi All. I have received a cq from a&l today for half the amount, what do i do with it? Obviously i'll hold out for the full amount but do i keep the cq and send a letter accepting it as part payment but want the full amount or send the cq back with a letter wanting full settlement?

 

any help please!!!!

 

jenny

[j.barton1]

Hi I have got this ready to send...is it okay???

 

J McGuirk,

Thank you for your letter dated 20.03.07. I respectfully decline your offer of £1,760.76 as settlement of my claim and have included the cheque you supplied for that offer.

My claim is for £3,444.50 as outlined in my previous letters…

£2,168.00 charges

£120.00 court fee

£1,056.50 interest @ 8%

£100.00 Allocation Questionnaire fee.

This claim will continue until payment is made in full.

Alternatively if you want to return the cheque with the balance of £1,683.74 to total settlement of £3,444.50 then I will inform the court that the claim is settled.

With regards to your letter “As it is clear you do not accept the t&c’s for the operation of your account we will shortly be contacting you to discuss its future operations” As you should be aware I have had this account closed for many years so this does not apply to me, but I do not agree with the retaliation of Alliance & Leicester by making this statement and will forward my complaint to the Financial Ombudsman.