Dragon1471 v Woolwich

[dragon1471]

hi everyone ,its great to be part of this community.

i am at the stage where barclays representative george east (customer relations manager )has turned down my letter of claim saying that when i opened my account i was presented with the terms & conditions of the account and what my obligations were.i am sure everyone knows the rest.

may i say that the first stages were dealt with by woolwich representatives and were very polite and quick with there replies ,all the negative correspondence came from barclays people(it winds me up when someone from barclays tells me "when i opened the account with them ",barclays took over the woolwich about three years ago i think and i opened my account in 1993 !)

please can someone advise me on my next steps .

i worked out that including interest the woolwich owes me £1600 over a period of 5 yrs as i closed my open plan account last october and they sent me only 5yrs statements from that date not 6yrs from the date the account closed. idid request the extra year but mr east (barclays!)sent me the the letter by then . i am entitled to the extra year?

 

please with the wealth of knowledge out there give me some advise as my confidence level dropped with the last letter.

many thanks for reading ,hope to get some advise soon .

andy

[Guest bong]

hi dragon. read some success stories in the barclays forum if your confidence needs a boost!

 

There are two ways of looking at this. If you agree that the banks should be entitled to rely on the Statute of Limitations Act 1980 then your claim would be for six years back from when you first approached them for repayment of the charges.

 

If however you disagree with this and think you can successfully fight their defence under the LA 1980, you could claim all your charges going back as far as you have records - so long as you claim them within the NEXT 6 years.

 

If you want to read more on this subject try a search on the word 'limitations'.

[dragon1471]

hi bong , many thanks for the advice , i wont be greedy or tempt fate by claiming back further than the 6 years,but then sometimes you look back and think of the days when you were struggling with a young family and be charged these extortionate rates ,when nicely asking the banks if they could reconsider they say no!makes you think twice.but anyway less of the sob story,please advice of my next steps .ie. contact the court/bank of my intentions?

many thanks again

dragon

[Guest bong]

Hi again. I'm not sure which letters you've already sent - you need to refer to the user guide here - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/woolwich/41746-user-guide-contacts-link.html#post329646

 

all the best

[Rooster-UK]

Hi Dragon, welcome to the family.

 

OK. You ask what your next step should be....... I'll tell you.

It's the step that you missed out. It should have been your first step.

 

Spend a few days reading the FAQs and the step by step guide in the library section. This will answer most of your questions.

The letters in the library have been written to be used in conjunction with the well-tried and tested methods that are advocated on this site.

If you follow this, carefully then you will succeed. Jump the gun or ad-lib and the results may not be as you expect.

 

Remember that you are about to take Barclays Bank PLC to court. This is a major financial institution with unlimited financial resouces and a large legal department full of solicitors. If you try to run before you can walk, they'll have you for breakfast.

Do it properly and you WILL SUCCEED.

 

Now start reading.;-)

[dragon1471]

Hi thanks for the invaluable advise, at the moment i am writing the lba to mr east , will keep you posted.many thanks

dragon

[dragon1471]

Hi everyone , sent my lba to the bank about three weeks ago and they havn't replied,now i am preparing to use moneyclaim online to take them to court but first i need some advise please.Firstly who do i address the claim against,my local branch or mr east at the customer relations part of barclays who initially turned me down.please any other advise who also but apreciated.many thanks

andy

[cheddar]

Neither you address it to their registered office, please start your own thread on your banks forum and have a read around in there, read the FAQs again and also read the self help material.

[Michael Browne]

Their registered office See here:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/faqs-please-read-these/31052-contact-details-banks.html

[dragon1471]

hi,did my moneyclaim online against the woolich/barclays for a total including interest and claim charges of £1700 at the beginning of december .they have now acknowledged the claim on december 22nd.on the claim form from the courts it says they are defending all the claim.please could i have advise as this seems like its goihg all the way,also anyone know off a way to get a copy of the money programme on bank charges.many thanks and happy new year to eveyone.

andy

[Deller]

This is totally standard for them to say they are defending the whole of the claim. It's just a case now of sitting back and waiting for them to submit their defence.

[Michael Browne]

anyone know off a way to get a copy of the money programme on bank charges

Press release with quotes here:

BBC - Press Office - The Money Programme: Bank Robbery!

[bill-k]

a copy of the money programme on bank charges

Follow this link:-

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/post-449944.html

 

There are several links in this post to the MoneyProg, and other stuff.

[MARTIN3030]

Wow 12 posts in welcome.......sorry now have to move here where it belongs !!

[dragon1471]

hi,barclays have today submitted there defence its as follows

 

The particulars of claim does not provide details of the account in question or the precise charges alleged to be unlawful thereof.

2. It is denied that charges debited to the claimant's account were in respect of purported breaches of contract on the part of the claimant. The defendant is entitled to charge the claimant for unauthorised borrowing by reason of its standard terms and conditions. The charges constitute payments the claimant agreed to make by reason of the terms and conditions of his account and were consideration for the defendant advancing credit to the claimant, which the defendant was under no obligation to advance. The defendant was entitled to impose such charges and interest when the claimant incurred the overdraft. The claimant accepted the same when the account was opened.

3. The standard terms and conditions included (in particular but without limitation) the following terms and conditions (which are summarised):

a. The defendant?s right to charge administrative costs if any cheque, standing order or direct debit cannot be paid because of lack of cleared funds in the account - £30:00 per item (previously £27:50).

b. The defendant?s right to charge administrative costs if the defendant was compelled to pay any items which caused the account to be overdrawn - £30:00 per item (previously £27:50).

c. The defendant?s right to charge unauthorised overdraft fees - £3:00 per day.

d. The defendant?s entitlement to refuse any debit transaction or debit card transaction where there were insufficient cleared funds in the account and to debit from the claimant?s account any charges, interest or other money which became payable by the claimant to the defendant in relation to the account.

e. The defendant?s entitlement, if the claimant were overdrawn without an overdraft limit or exceeded his overdraft limit, to charge interest at the unauthorised borrowing rate on the excess balance.

f. The defendant?s entitlement, if a cheque or other item paid to the account was returned unpaid , to debit the account with the amount of that item together with any interst paid by the defendant on it.

4. The defendant?s standard terms and conditions give the claimant a fair and transparent view of those terms and the charges applicable for unauthorised borrowing (including where the claimant exceeds her authorised overdraft limit).

5. If and to the extent it is the claimant?s case that the failure to make necessary payments and / or failure to rtemain within authorised overdraft limitsconstituted a breach of the terms applying to the account and that the contractual entitlement to debit charges from the claimant?s accounts constitutes a liquidated damage clause, the same is denied. Paragraph 3 above is repeated.

6. To the extent that it is alleged that the claimant incurred bank charges, the claimant is put to strict proof of each charge made.

7. For the reasons set out above it is denied that the legal prinicples relating to liquidated damages clauses and penalty charges are relevant or applicable to the facts set out above. Further or alternatively it is denied that any such charges constitute unlawful penalty charges or are in breach of the unfair terms in consumer contracts regulations,or are in breach of the unfair (contracts)terms act 1977.

8.therefore ,it is denied that the charges were unlawfully debited from the account.

9.if and to the extent the claimant incurred charges on his account,this was caused by the claimant having gone into overdraft without having agreed with the defendent to increase the overdraft facilityand/or his failure to make payments to bring the balance of the account back into credit or back within the authorised overdraft limit.

10.it is averred that the said charges and interest are and remain lawful and enforceable and that the defendant was entitled to debit the same.

11. The defendant denies that it is liable to the claimant for the sums claimed and interest as pleaded by the claimant or at all.

12. The defendant denies that it is liable to the claimant for the sums claimed and interest, as pleaded or at all. In the alternative if (which is denied) the said charges are unenforceable and constituted a breach of contract by the defendant, thoses charges which were applied to the account prior to )5 December 2000 are not recoverable because they are time-barred under the terms of the limitation act 1980 in that more than six years have elapsed since the accrual of the cause of action.

13. In the alternative and without prejudice to paragraph 8 above, if (which is denied) the said charges and interest or any part thereof are unlawful or unenforceable as alleged by the claimant or at all, the defendant has nontheless suffered loss and damage as a consequence of the claimant's breach of contract inallowing the account to go into unauthorised overdraft. Accordingly, in the event that the defendant is ubnable to rely on it's express entitlement to enforce thecharges as set out at paragraphs 3 to 4 and 9 above, it will seek to recover to the extent necessary such loss and damage as it actually suffered, which will not necessarily be limtited to the value of the said charges, and the Defendant seeks to set off such sums any liability owed hereunder to the Claimant.

Barclays Bank PLC.

 

 

Firstly because of the previous dialogue and the threat of legal action against them i did forget to put my account number on the claim(even though it would not be difficult for them to retrieve my details just through my name and address)

also i am not claiming before 6 years like they state .

also i am not claiming for any other charges but the ones in the £27.50-£ 30 bracket.

i have been given a form saying the case is to be transferred to my local court i must also fill in an allocation questionare.please please help.

i have followed the procedures set out in faqs.

i have to hand this in by the 27th jan

many thanks

andy

[wewonitfivetimes]

Dragon,

 

Standard stuff my friend,don't panic,be confident and use the resource on this site.

Keep reading up other peoples threads - it will make you even more confident of eventual success.

 

Complete your Allocation Questionaire (help is available in Templates)

and send your £100 back to the court in question asap

Wait and see if Barclays get their AQ back on time - ring the court after the deadline has passed to see if they have.

If they have, ask the court if the judge has set a court date, if so go back to the Templates and start to prepare your Court Bundle.Remember help is available!!

If Barclays have not returned their AQ, ask the court what happens next!!(this is where I am with my claim!!)

Keep us all in touch of your progress.

Good Luck

[dragon1471]

many thanks for your kind help.

i have just received a letter from the court stating that"the claim is stayed on the grounds that the claimants statement of case discloses inadequate particulars of claim."

They have given me til 13th february to file a further statement of case that sets out full particulars of the claim.which i must then return to the court and barclays.

given that the court only gives you a small space to write on this is a bit rich.please help and advise me what more do they want me to do i.e send the charge details etc.also are there any template letters i could use to my advantage here ,sorry for my ignorance.

many thanks all

dragon

[dragon1471]

HELP PLEASE !!!!!!!!!!

hi i have just had my letter from the court back today after sending in the particulars of claim template letter frrom the site along with photocopies of all the charges claimin g for .

The district judge has returned this

 

IT IS ORDERED THAT

The action be stayed until 16th april 2007 or further order on the basic that there is likely to be a test case before a higher court before the end of the year the result of which is likely to reduce the need and/or amount of litigation in these type of cases ;the stay will afford the parties an oppurtunity to try and settle the matter without a court hearing .

Liberty to apply to remove the stay.

File to be referred back to the judge by 30th april 2007.

 

This order was made on the district judges own initiative pursuant to cpr part 23.8.if you object to the terms of the order you must make an application to the court to have it set aside,varied or stayed within 7 days of recieving it pursuant to cpr part 23.10.

 

 

My god just my luck.a lady next to me at work her chap had his court hearing the day before i had this letter.(yesterday).i have followed all the guide lines and now have come up against this .

 

Please someone help me quick here , i am stuck bigtime!

THANKS

ANDY

[essjaysea]

Have a look at this link and apply to the court for the removal of the stay

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/17065-application-removal-stay.html

[dragon1471]

Thanks so much i will do this right away.andy

[dragon1471]

Hi again , just a few questions about the application for the removal of stay.

Please could you help me with these points

 

the application refers to the lloyds tsb i was with the woolwich/barclays.

the application refers to me as being still with the bank i left them about 14 months ago.

Should i mention that a work colleagues chap had a court date given just a day before my case was stayed by a different judge from the same court.

 

I think thats all but any other advise would be great.many thanks once again.

andy

[essjaysea]

OK...just adapt the text to refer to Barclays...count up the number of successful claims against Barclays/Woolwich and use that figure...you could still use the reference to Peter Macnamara.

 

I wouldn't necessarily mention your colleague's case as there may have been good legal reasoning behind that decision