CINCH/alphera finance (BMW Group) - Engine problems now back after 7 months use

[tdol4444]

I bought a car from cinch in august 2023 and a month later I had a “engine oil low” light come up on dash

I contacted cinch who said and I quote “Thank you for getting in touch, I'm really sorry to hear you are seeing a low engine oil message on the dash.
 
We do not usually cover services as we have service history showing it has been serviced, however on this occasion, I believe the previous owner has misled us with the service history. I am therefore happy to cover the cost of a service, you should receive a confirmation booking date from Halford's within 48 hours. 

This was their resolution to that problem which I went with as they are the experts

since then it appeared again on my dash 6 weeks ago, I topped up the engine oil

last week my car broke down, when RAC came out and checked the piston rings on the car have been leaking oil into the cylinder for a significant amount of time as the spark plugs have been burning oil.

This now explains why the engine oil light came on when I first bought the car….

I have now ran out of warranty with cinch but after now scanning through all the paper work I received with the car there is fault readings that have happened prior in March 2023 which suggest that it has been going on since then …..

Do I have a leg to stand on in getting them to cover the cost of the engine replacement as the problem was obviously there when I bought the car and down to them suggesting it was a dodgy service, it has only made the problem worse and not resolved the reason as to why it was low?

Also I have noticed that they didn’t actually get it serviced they only paid for an oil and filter change? 

I am now still left with £16k worth of finance remaining on the car and it doesn’t work as it needs a new engine?

What is the best way to resolve this 

[dx100uk]

not your car not your problem ....belongs to the finance company.... who is?

dx

 

[tdol4444]

It is a PCP finance agreement and company is alphera finance ?

what do you mean not my car not my problem please explain I don’t understand 

[dx100uk]

ALPHERA Select | Auto Financing | ALPHERA Partner Hub

WWW.ALPHERA.CO.UK

---

Upgrade to a higher specification model, add more options to your car, or pay less each month – with ALPHERA Select auto financing, the choices are...

We remain the owner of the vehicle during the agreement.

 

[tdol4444]

I can call them and tell them what has happened and they can either take the car back and refund me or replace with a new one? 

If I return the vehicle I will have to pay the damages as it has to be returned in a working state ? 
 

[dx100uk]

who said anything about returning it? you've left this 7mts now without informing the legal owner, hey man this car is a pup. that now limits your options. BUT

its their car , you are paying for the privilege of being allowed to drive it.

they should have been the first people you complained too when things were not right with it

i suggest you get on with it now. 

and no i would not be doing this by phone, you need a papertrail, write by royal mail 

 

dx

[tdol4444]

 
Ok I have only just been told that it is the piston rings which now make sense that it was the case when the first ever issue was raised …..

I shall get onto Alphera finance in the morning and get their correct department who I shall write to and get on the case….

I assume I shall still carry on making payment ect….

Do that have a set time to reply to me or process as I am very naive and never done anything like this prior 

thank you so much for your assistance also 

[dx100uk]

just type no need to hit quote every time.

i see you found the correct forum to post in 

i now suggest you read a good few threads here to get upto speed now on the ins and outs

 

[dx100uk]

can you just clarify, your thread title says 7 mts but in post one you say bought aug 2023, is this a typo and should be aug 2024?

 

[tdol4444]

I bought the car in august 2023 so I have had the car for 7 months ….. it had 3 months warranty and I reported the first fault within the first 4 weeks which was neglected by them and now has caused the engine to seize ….. it is a Peugeot 3008 43km miles on clock 67 plate 

[dx100uk]

yes sorry forgive me cant count....

you say 4 weeks? was this within 30 days of you physically having the car and signing the finance agreement? this could be very important here ....dates please

dx

 

[tdol4444]

The car was delivered to me on the 11/08/2023 and I reported this problem on the 08/09/2023 so 29 days so yes within 30 days just 

[dx100uk]

then i think, even though you didnt invoke or mention at the time your consumer rights? you were within the 30 days, you can now reject the vehicle.

under your consumer rights/laws, vehicle retailers get one chance to rectify a fault, then if the vehicle latterly fails again for the same fault/symptom, it invokes your right to return for a full refund.

i'll ping @BankFodder to cross i's and dot t's but i think you are in with a chance here.

 

 

[tdol4444]

Thank you very much I hope so …. Any help in what my next steps should be as I have already made contact with cinch and awaiting their reply? No doubt they will refuse anything to do with it so I want to be prepared to go onto the next steps asap 

[BankFodder]

I think that you need to assert the right – either within 30 days or if you are claiming the six-month right, you need to assert that right.

I must say that it troubles me and Frankly it should be obvious and there should be a presumption in favour of the right but it seems that the statute wants you to assert it in some way that makes it clear to the other side that the vehicle is rejected or else that they are being given a single chance to repair it failing which – a rejection.

I think this is a controversial area and could cause problems and delays trying to argue it. 

It's also complicated by the fact that it seems in the statute that the trader has to agree which of course is completely ridiculous and undermines the whole idea of the right to reject.

To my mind, the right to reject provisions of the 2015 act are pretty well rubbish and they simply give hope to consumers but the requirement of an agreement by the trader gives the trader a way out and I don't think we got single instance here out of many stories where a consumer has tried to reject the item, that the trader has complied with the act.

However, this is not the end of the matter. The vehicle that you buy has to be a satisfactory quality and it must remain that way for a reasonable period of time. Clearly your vehicle is not of satisfactory quality and according to you have all the evidence to show that this is the case.

You haven't told us much about the vehicle.

Please can you tell us make, model, mileage, year, price paid.

Did it have an MOT. If so what was the date of the MOT and who did the MOT.

How far away from you is the dealer.

And very importantly, where is the vehicle now? Is it driveable? If it isn't driveable then how long has it been undriveable?
In addition to the purchase price, what other costs/expenses have you incurred as a result of all this.

Have you now told the hire purchase company? I understand that you didn't tell them anything at all. I'm going to say for your sake – but also for others who visit this thread – this is crazy not to tell the hire purchase company who are effectively the owners of the vehicle.

When you enter into a hire purchase agreement, you are only paying for the loan of the money to you, you are also paying for them to be responsible for the condition of the vehicle for at least the duration of the hire purchase agreement and probably longer than that.

By cutting the hire purchase company out of the loop, you have simply given them free money and without any

responsibilities.
Nice one! (If you are the hire purchase company, that is).


 

[tdol4444]

Hi thank you or reviewing this and assisting me…

the car is a PEUGEOT 3008, 67 plate and has done 43k miles I bought it when it was on 38k miles 

I paid £17200 for this vehicle in august 2023 

it has an MOT which was done 8th June 2023 while In possession of either cinch or BCA as per the paperwork they left in the car (they didn’t realise -along with documents showing previous fault codes to do with the engine) 

I bought this from Cinch and I’m not to sure where they are based as the car was delivered …

the car is parked up outside my property, and has been there unmoved since the RAC   came out and got me home (02/03/24)…. It is drivable as the engine turns over  but as per the RAC report and mechanics inspection is that do not drive as problem could seize the engine and RAC will not recover again for same issue they only cleaned the oil from the spark plugs to get the car home safely . Although I do not want to drive it either knowing that the problem is as severe as it is it’s unsafe to do so… 

I had a mechanic come out and inspect it and after reviewing everything and running test on the vehicle he deemed it to be the piston rings are leaking into the cylinder3 for a significant amount of time for the oil to be effecting the spark plugs and causing the car to go into limp mode and throw the codes it did ….

I have contacted the finance company today (ALPHERA FINANCE) and explained it all to them they have escalated it and seemed pretty helpful and positive with the evidence I have provided them a resolution can be resolved …… (although I’m sure they also will try and wiggle out of it any which way they can given a chance) 

[BankFodder]

Good luck the finance company – but don't hold your breath. It would be extraordinary if they stepped up to the mark.

You say that you have contacted the finance company. Did you do this in writing? You need to make sure that everything is written down.

You say that you found some documents in the car which referred to various fault codes. Is it at all possible that these fault codes have some bearing on the defects which have now manifested themselves?
You have written reports from the mechanic and from the RAC?

Have you any idea what might be the cost of addressing the defects which have been discovered so far?

[tdol4444]

I have had to send them over documents in regards to everything I have and proof of the problem when I first reported it and everything

I have told them about including emails written regarding the first report in which they claimed to be a faulty service report from previous owner as to why the oil must be low so soon after a service…

yes the documents I found in the car was hidden under the seat and was from cinch/BCA themselves and their reports on the car …

one price of documentation has 2 of the same fault codes in which was also present this time and they both are to do with the cylinders misfiring in the engine…

on the last service the spark plugs were changed in which the car was sold pretty soon after ….

 there were advisory’s in the services of things that wasn’t done 

lastly one document claimed the front/engine/air con gas was inoperative and was under investigation but never completed 

[BankFodder]

Thank you.

From the sounds of it you are in a very powerful position.
Are you looking to get rid of the car or are you interested in having it repaired?

You have gone to the finance company for the moment. I'm a skeptic – as you probably gather – but best of luck with that.

However, I would not allow it to go on too long. I can imagine that they will say that they want to investigate and this will take eight weeks. This is to be pretty typical and if this happens then you should understand that you are probably being fobbed off.

Don't be led around by the nose by these people. If they simply say that they are opening an investigation that you are losing control. From what you say you have enough evidence to take control of this whole thing and to direct the timescale.

I wouldn't give it more than about 10 days before start taking your own action. The car is off the road – and can't be driven. This is serious and it's not something that should simply depend on the uncertain outcome of an extended eight week investigation.

The starting point should be to understand that finance companies simply want to make their money from their high purchase agreements and they aren't interested in their consumer obligations. They take advice from the very dealership that stands to lose as a result of a negative conclusion. This means that the finance company's own investigation and reports are bias.

We have hundreds of this kind of thing happening and I think in every case, the finance company has to be bullied to the point of receiving the court claim papers before they finally relent.

 

[tdol4444]

Amazing

what do you think I should do next and how do I go about this …

I can’t wait much longer without a car as I have 3 children’s and also paying high monthly payments on this car…

Again I don’t really understand what I have to do to push them along or the process but I am willing to do anything to make sure this is resolved ASAP 

what do you think their next step will be and how I can prepare and counter that? 

thanks so much for your help again 

I have researched and the cost of replacing the piston rings and an engine rebuild along with what ever else has been damaged as a cause of this is easily in the excess of £5/6k …….

I would defo not want this car back once it’s had this work done

I would rather a replacement car….

I’m not fussed about receiving money back or anything like that..

I honestly just want a car that works and is reliable. 

[dx100uk]

31 minutes ago, tdol4444 said:

how I can prepare and counter that? 

well one of the 1st things you've gotta do is understand you are now in total control and stop being of the mindset the dealership can bully you or prevent you getting what you want to achieved , you now demand what happens.

one of the plus points here is this is on finance IMHO. you have a very powerful ally here that can almost dictate your wishes to the dealership upon what happens now going forward.  

dx

[tdol4444]

Am I within my rights to demand to send the car back to the finance company or at least threaten that to get things sped up

how do I appeal to the courts or do I have to send some sort of letter/email regarding the court claim papers 

[dx100uk]

let things run for now in that regard.

lets see where the finance co go.

you have the right to demand whatever you want to happen. 

not sure what your comment is about appealing to a court?

if all else fails you will be issuing a court claim probably naming the dealership and the finance company but that might not be needed. 

your best tool is you eyes at present.

read as many threads as you can in this forum that you found and started yours in .

the more you read the stronger we become.

everything you need to know is already here in the 100's of existing threads

dx

 

 

[BankFodder]

I have just looked back over this post which I made earlier and I suddenly realise that I didn't express myself at all well when I made the following observation

 

21 hours ago, BankFodder said:

I think that you need to assert the right – either within 30 days or if you are claiming the six-month right, you need to assert that right.

 

This looks as if I have suggested that you should go ahead and assert your right.

That's not all what I meant. My fault – I should be more careful.

It is far too late for you to assert your right. What I intended was that I don't think that one can simply infer from circumstances that are right has been asserted. The statute suggest very strongly that some positive action must be taken to assert the right.
On that basis, even though defects occurred within 30 days and you may have complained about it, this is not an assertion of right.

I do hope that you didn't think that I'm suggesting that you should go ahead and assert your right now. As I have said, it is far too late. However as I have also said, that's not the end of story. It's clear that the vehicle is not satisfactory quality

[tdol4444]

*UPDATE*
cinch have finally got back to me and have booked my car into the main dealership to have this looked at, they also wanted me to drive it there which I refused unless they gave me written permission to wave myself of any liability if this causes more damage to the engine, then they have now agreed that they will get my vehicle recovered via RAC tow truck to take it to the garage ….. I asked about a courtesy car but they have said that they will only provide one for a maximum of 7 days ….. my car has already been out of action for 14 days and no date set as of yet when main dealership can book my car in (in one the earliest date was  23 April) 

 

on a whole it seems as though they are taking responsibility for this issue as the evidence I have provided proves well beyond any doubt that it was there when I bought the vehicle and it is very UNSATISFACTORY condition…..

 

in regards to a courtesy car for the time being if cinch will only provide me with one for 7 days will I have more luck in my finance provider as I am paying them for use of the car not cinch? Do they have to provide me with a courtesy car as I’m still making monthly payments for a car I can no longer use which is their issue ? 
 

thanks again