CEL ANPR PCN Claimform - didn't input reg - moved address - CAR PARK AT ASM SUPERMARKET 75-83 OLDHAM RD Ashton-under-Lyne OL6 7DF***Claim Struck Out***

[xtonehari]

This is the Draft Defence. I have taken some from points from Andyorch and few point from other post. 

Please let me know if this good and sufficient.  Thank you
 

The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim are vague and are generic in nature which fails to comply with CPR 16.4. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made.
 
1. It is denied that the Defendant ever entered into a contract to breach any terms and conditions of the stated private land.
 
2. As held by the Upper Tax Tribunal in Vehicle Control Services Limited v HMRC [2012] UKUT 129 (TCC), any contract requires offer and acceptance. The Claimant was only contracted to provide car park management services and is not capable of entering into a contract with the Defendant on its own account, as the car park is owned by and the terms of entry set by the landowner.
 
3. It is admitted that Defendant is the recorded keeper of the vehicle XXXXXX. The Claimant is not in a position to state if the Defendant was the driver at the time.
  
4. There are no contractual costs and interest cannot be accrued on a speculative charge.
 
5. Therefore the claimant is put to strict proof to evidence its cause of action and contractual costs and what loss it has suffered. 
 
6. The Claimant is further put to strict proof that it has sufficient proprietary interest in the land, or that it has the necessary authorisation from the landowner to issue parking charge notices, and to pursue payment by means of litigation.
 
7. The Particulars of Claim is denied in its entirety.  It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the recovery or any recovery at all.
 

8. Notwithstanding the above on 27/04/2023, the Defendant made a request pursuant to CPR 31.14 for the Claimant to disclose the necessary evidence in support of their claim. To this date the claimant has failed to respond to said request.

[dx100uk]

pers id stick to our std 5 lines, better to keep your cards hidden not giving them time to counter it / fake documentation ??

[xtonehari]

Ok, I will go with the standard 5 points defence. Please let me know if this is fine. 

 

The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim are vague and generic in nature which fails to comply with CPR 16.4.  The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made.
 

1.  The Defendant is the recorded keeper of XXXXXX. 

2.  It is denied that the Defendant entered into a contract with the Claimant.

3.  As held by the Upper Tax Tribunal in Vehicle Control Services Limited v HMRC [2012] UKUT 129 (TCC), any contract requires offer and acceptance.  The Claimant was simply contracted by the landowner to provide car-park management services and is not capable of entering into a contract with the Defendant on its own account, as the car park is owned by and the terms of entry set by the landowner.  Accordingly, it is denied that the Claimant has authority to bring this claim. 

4.  In any case it is denied that the Defendant broke the terms of a contract with the Claimant.

5.  The Particulars of Claim is denied in its entirety.  It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief at all.

[dx100uk]

On 26/04/2023 at 18:16, xtonehari said:

Date to submit Defence – 23rd may 

 

[xtonehari]

Defence has been submitted today.

[xtonehari]

I have received response to my SAR request from Civil Enforcement

The company Civil Enforcement have sent a two page introduction letter (attached) and all the PCN letters and solicitors letters that were sent to me. 

 

SARLetter.pdf

[dx100uk]

we need to see anything that is not already on this thread.

 

dx

 

[xtonehari]

Received letter from HM Court acknowledging my defence and to wait for the claimant to reply. 

CourtLetter.pdf

[dx100uk]

std letter.

so what's the important time limit here...read the letter again...

 

[xtonehari]

Hi,

It has been more than 28 days now, there is no response to my defence. I have not received any letter and I checked online at moneyclaim.gov.uk but there is no correspondence. 

As per the letter from the court, the claimant should respond to my defence within 28days, if the period has elapsed, the claim will stay open and the claimant have to apply to a judge for an order lifting the stay.  

What can be done now please. 

[Nicky Boy]

No the claim doesn't "stay open".

It's stayed. Effectively paused or stopped. I understand this 28 day period can stretch somewhat.

To lift the stay and carry on with the case, I believe the fleecers have to pay another fee.

Just sit tight for now and keep checking mcol for the stay.

[dx100uk]

stay does not appear on mcol.

the sending out of DQN180 can sometimes take several weeks if the court has a backlog.

of which mcol will state they have been sent out.

 

start cheering in another month

and get reading a good few court claim threads still.

dx

 

[lookinforinfo]

Could you please post up the original PCN you received front and back. Plesae remove all your personal date and reg. number as well as any of their reference numbers.but retaining the dates and times and it need to be legible.

[xtonehari]

Hi L,

Please find the original PCN attached. 

If you need any other details, please let me know. 

Thank you

OriginalPCN.pdf

[xtonehari]

Hi Team,

I have received a Notice of Proposed Allocation to the Small Claims Track from the Court Office today. 

The Letter has total of 9 pages with instructions and a form if I wish to contest. 

Please advise if I have to fill in the Questionnaire on page 6 in the attached file and/or how to proceed going forward. 

Thank you

NoticeofProposedAllocationToTheSmallClaimsTrack.pdf

[dx100uk]

not been reading up in a month then as advised earlier.

how to respond to the N180 is in just about EVERY PCN claimform thread here already...

you should not be disappearing for a month and not selfhelping....

 

dx

 

[AndyOrch]

 

[lookinforinfo]

Thank you for posting the original PCN-I am sorry to be so long in responding.

The ticket does not comply with PoFA since the period of parking is not mentioned. Under Schedule 4 Section 9 (2)(a) it should be specified.

What they have done is entered your arrival and departure times only . As that includes the time taken to drive to a parking spot and later drive from the parking place to the exit no way that it can be called a parking period 

They have also missed out the part in brackets in Schedule 4 S9 (2)(f) which states that they have to have complied with the Act if they wish to pursue the keeper.

As they haven't done that the keeper is not responsible for the debt -only the driver is In addition you did shop at the supermarket so were entitled to park there .

If you paid by card you would be able to prove that  should something similar happen in future contact the store straight away as they often get the tickets cancelled 

 

[xtonehari]

Hi,

I received email today for Meditation service and given an appointment on 12th Oct. 

Important mediation requirements
Please read the following statements - mediation is only available if you can answer yes to all 3:

- I am willing to negotiate on the amount of the claim and I will consider a compromise.
- I have enough information about the claim to enter into negotiations and do not require any further evidence from the other party before starting mediation.
- I’m available for the entire time slot on the date of my appointment.

If you cannot answer yes to all 3 statements, mediation is NOT suitable for your case and you should contact us.

What is the course of action when comes to mediation please. I have to say Yes to all three points above, but on the appointment day, what is the suggestion please.

Thank you...

 

[dx100uk]

you should have said NO if you'd followed/read any other pcn claimform thread.

you now do that.

 

dx

 

[xtonehari]

Hi DX,

I followed this guide as shown in this link for Mediation response.  Do you suggest I should decline the mediation. 
 

It says,

For completion once a defence has been submitted and the claimant wishes to proceed.

Yes to mediation No if its statute barred or a parking claim.

Yes to Small Claims Track

State your local County Court 

1 witness = yourself

The rest is self explanatory

Run 3 copies..Court/Solicitor/File

[dx100uk]

now read the bit ive highlighted again ...carefully!!!!!

[Nicky Boy]

We'll have to change that bit to REALLY BIG TYPE!! dx

[FTMDave]

It's clicked with me now that CEL have tried it on a but too much in their PoCs.

They're not allowed to add any Unicorn Food Tax really but will whine that their trade association allows them to do so up to £70.  Well they've added £82 so breach of their trade association Code of Practice straight away.

They've also added £50 legal representative's costs - even though they are representing themselves and have no legal representative.

So that's £132 of completely made-up charges.

Ideally some of this should have gone in the defence.  But, fear not, this can be used to clobber them at WS stage.

[dx100uk]

on a % scale how many claims do we see whereby any PPC does this overcharging?