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    • UK citizens will be subject to the same rules as other Third Country Nationals. Keir Starmer to warn of 'major disruption' risk ahead of new UK-EU border checks | ITV News WWW.ITV.COM Ministers will announce measures to try to blunt the impact of the changes, writes ITV News Deputy Political Editor Anushka Asthana. | ITV National...  
    • Oh I see! thats confusing, for some reason the terms and conditions that Evri posted in that threads witness statement are slightly different than the t&cs on packlinks website. Their one says enter into a contract with the transport agency, but the website one says enter into a contract with paclink. via website: (c) Each User will enter into a contract with Packlink for the delivery of its Goods through the chosen Transport Agency. via evri witness statement in that thread: (c) Each User shall then enter into its own contract with the chosen Transport Agency. Packlink does not have any control over, and disclaims all liability that may arise in contracts between a User and a Transport Agency I read your post at #251, so I should use the second one (and changing the screenshot in the court bundle), since I am saying I have a contract with Evri? Is that correct EDIT: Oh I understand the rest of your conversation. you're saying if I was to do this i would have to fully adjust my ws to use the consumer rights act instead of rights of third parties. In that case should I just edit the terms and stick with the third parties plan?. And potentially if needed just bring up the CRA in the hearing, as you guys did in that thread  
    • First, those are the wrong terms,  read posts 240-250 of the thread ive linked to Second donough v stevenson should be more expanded. You should make refernece to the three fold duty of care test as well. Use below as guidance: The Defendant failed its duty of care to the Claimant. As found in Donoghue v Stevenson negligence is distinct and separate to any breach of contract. Furthermore, as held in the same case there need not be a contract between the Claimant and the Defendant for a duty to be established, which in the case of the Claimant on this occasion is the Defendant’s duty of care to the Claimant’s parcel whilst it is in their possession. By losing the Claimant’s parcel the Defendant has acted negligently and breached this duty of care. As such the Claimant avers that even if it is found that the Defendant not be liable in other ways, by means of breach of contract, should the court find there is no contract between Claimant and Defendant, the Claimant would still have rise to a claim on the grounds of the Defendant’s negligence and breach of duty of care to his parcel whilst it was in the Defendant’s possession, as there need not be a contract to give rise to a claim for breach of duty of care.  The court’s attention is further drawn to Caparo Industries plc v Dickman (1990), 2 AC 605 in which a three fold test was used to determine if a duty of care existed. The test required that: (i) Harm must be a reasonably foreseeable result of the defendant’s conduct; (ii) A relationship of proximity must exist and (iii) It must be fair, just and reasonable to impose liability.  
    • Thank you. here's the changes I made 1) removed indexed statement of truth 2) added donough v Stevenson in paragraph 40, just under the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982 paragraph about reasonable care and skill. i'm assuming this is a good place for it? 3) reworded paragraph 16 (now paragraph 12), and moved the t&cs paragraphs below it then. unless I understood you wrong it seems to fit well. or did you want me to remove the t&cs paragraphs entirely? attached is the updated draft, and thanks again for the help. WS and court bundle-1 fourth draft redacted.pdf
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      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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NCP ANPR PCN NTK - DOZ Gatwick airport


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Hi, all, long time no speak!

 

I just came to refresh my memory and catch up on what's been changing in the murky world of PPCs. 

 

My good friend K has fallen foul of the dreaded LGW Sth Terminal Drop off Zone, even though she wasn't dropping anyone off! She was going to the McD and went round the one way by accident, no matter, ANPR caught her, and she received  a letter yesterday, at which point she called me.  

 

date of incident: 12/04

date of sending notice: 28/04

Pay by date: 30/05

 

She received it yesterday, so 20/05. 

 

I've just been on NCP's website, and at the bottom, it says the discount period has passed, and the whole £100 is now owed. Ho-hum. 

 

I have seen some threads where people were complaining about NCP's system not working  properly, so I'm going to break this down  in case others get caught out in the same way (and I'm not even starting on the other "irregularities" , these have already been detailed by others!) :

 

- Notice is deemed to have been given on the second working day after the date of sending above

- If payment is received within 18 days from the date this notice is given, then a reduced amount, bla bla, you know the rest.

 

Now then: if date of sending is 28/4 (Thu), then the 2nd working day after is 03/5 (Tue) 18 days from that takes us to the 21/05 (Sat), which is today.  So, my friend has until the end of the day to pay the reduced charge if she so wishes, right?

Well, no, she couldn't even if she wanted to, because, when I checked their website, it states that the discount period has expired, and she now must pay £100. 

 

Just goes to show that one must really check every little thing!

 

So, in conclusion, NCP don't seem to know their *rses from their elbows, and I'll be quite happy to hand them said *rses  on behalf of my beleaguered friend. 

 

To be continued... :) 

 

 

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  • Bookworm changed the title to Notice to Keeper - Gatwick @NCP

Hi Bookie, good to hear from you again.

I am pretty sure that Gatwick and  Heathrow now work the same con of having to pay a £5 fee for dropping someone off at the terminal. So as your friend did not drop anyone off and did not stop, they were not in a position to read the T&Cs so did not accept the contract. 

The airport is covered by Bye Laws so the PCN cannot be PoFA compliant which means that only the driver can be held liable and even they cannot be liable as they did not accept the contract. They did not stop, so no waiting time involved. Nothing to pay so discount period irrelevant.

Complain to Airport and the ICO.

Do not disclose the driver's name. If writing to complain, ensure that the complaint is in the name of the keeper.

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The entry and exit times would also indicate no stop was made as likely less than 2 minutes from entry to exit

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So not only have they denied her the early payment discount in total non-compliance with their own rules, but they've sent the invoice out too late to establish keeper liability under POFA.

 

Is there a postmark on the envelope?

We could do with some help from you.

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Thanks, both of you, good points! 

 

It really is disgusting.  Look at the time stamp, ffs!  😡 

 

@LFI, I was only going to make them go away, but on 2nd thoughts, I AM going to complain! 

 

I already have ICO's address (practically engraved in my head, lol), but do you have the airport's  one  at hand, by any chance?

 

Thanks again. My poor friend is drowning as it is, so much piled on her head, so I've taken over the handling of all the DCAs, enforcement agencies, etc... This last one had her in floods of tears when it arrived, last straw and all that... :(  I'm not even supposed to do anything stressful myself, but you can't just sit here and do nothing, right? Argh, I get so frustrated at this type of cr@p, honest to god. 😠 

 

Anyway... I'll let you know if anything of interest happens with this one.  🙏

 

 

 

K8.pdf

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Hi, FTM, not sure about envelope, I'll ask her, but she keeps on not keeping them iyswim, even though I keep on telling her to! 😕 

 

I'll let you know. 

 

Yeah, no, sorry, no envelope that we can see.  🤷‍♀️

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Pity.  But then while we know there is no envelope, NCP don't know there is no envelope 😉

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  • 2 weeks later...

Good news.  Have a look at this thread.  Especially the last couple of posts  https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/448986-gatwick-drop-off-£5-charge-for-3-minutes-what-if-i-dont-accept-the-terms/

 

Turns out even NCP admit there is a grace period and if you drive in an out - as your friend did - you shouldn't get charged.

 

Their grace period is 1:00.  Your mate stayed for 1:06.  I'd like to see them really argue in court about six seconds!

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Just so.

 

Thank you, Joey, that is brilliant. My friend is lovely, but she's fighting so many different fronts, that stupid LGW ticket was just the last straw!!! Well, that will definitely help setting her mind at rest.  🤗

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There is another factor. The sign at the start of the drop off zone states that there is a £5 charge. But it is not until you read the T&Cs inside that there is an  £80 charge for nonpayment too late as the £5 is the charge but the penalty is not included in that contract. And that is even before the fact that the driver did not stop so could not even read the terms.

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Challengeable as an Unfair contract Term as not openly presented in  legible text to someone passing through?

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  • 1 year later...

We could do with some help from you.

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  • dx100uk changed the title to NCP ANPR PCN NTK - DOZ Gatwick airport

@Bookworm what is the current situation here with your mate and the fleecers?

We could do with some help from you.

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