UKPCL ANPR PCN claimform - overstay - MCDONALDS· WAKEFIELD 2 569, DEWSBURY ROAD WAKEFIELD WF2 9BY ***Claim Discontinued***

[RyanB96]

Hi, 

I have just received a parking offence through the post from McDonalds.

On the 17th April 2022 I was parked in McDonalds from 09:32:28 until 11:52:30 a time of 2 hours 20 minutes.

The car park was relatively empty the whole time.

I was parked there, because after a large night out the night before, I took 2 of my girl mates to maccies.

They were extremely hungover, and we were literally eating McDonalds / in maccies.

We bought food multiple times over the time period. 

 

I have received a £50 parking offence as apparently, the maximum time you are allowed to be parked in Maccies for is 1 hour 30 minutes.

I have never heard of such rubbish.

The charge is from UKPC (UK Parking Control Ltd) 

 

How do I fight this?

I wouldn't mind if I was just parked there and gone elsewhere, but we were literally in the McDonalds, buying food repeatedly. 

Happy to provide any and all information required. 

Thanks, 

Ryan 

[RyanB96]

Hi @Bazooka Boo, Thanks for the response. It doesn't use the word "fine" but does use the phrase "parking charge". 

I've called the maccies multiple times, but they do not answer the phone.. it's one quite a long way away from me, so not one I can go to, to chat to the manager either. 

I will keep trying to get through, but if that consistently fails, what's the next steps? 

[RyanB96]

Hi 

Apologies, I'm sure what you mean by "Sticky"? 

As requested, I've attached the PCN (all details scrubbed) - please let me know how to proceed - should I still email the CEO? 

Thanks,

Ryan 

PCN McDonalds.pdf

[RyanB96]

Hi, 

I have tried the branch at the time and they were no use; they just kept saying there was nothing they could do, it was clear I was not going to get anywhere with them. 

I have today received another letter - attached - dated for 18th July with a threat to transfer to solicitors if I don't pay £170. (I have also received other letters demanding £170 which I have just ignored, I can provide them too if needed). 

I also today emailed Alistair on that email provided above (McD CEO) but it hit a delivery master failure issue and wouldn't send. 

I also looked at filling out the sticky, but it seems excessively complicated and the thread is blocked for replies, I havent done that. 

Please advise on what next steps I should take, 

Thanks, 

Ryan 

Update - I tried the other link for emailing the CEO, note the CEO email is [email protected] (not .co.uk) 

However, he is out of office until August 9th. 

[RyanB96]

Yeah, in all honesty I had a lot going on and completely forgot about this until the letter came through today! 
 

 

[RyanB96]

Hi @lookinforinfo 

The email is .com rather than .co.uk - I got through eventually.

However I got a response from customer services (rather than the CEO) - see below: 

Quote

Michael Kelly (McDonald’s Customer Services) 25 Jul 2022, 11:24 BST Dear Ryan,   I am writing further to your email which has been passed for my attention regarding your visit to our Charlton restaurant. I have noted your comments and welcome the opportunity to confirm our policy on this matter.   As a company, putting in place enforcements within our car parks is only done after careful consideration and very much as a last resort. Primarily, we use parking measures to ensure there are spaces available for our customers’ vehicles, as well as to deter unwarranted or unreasonably prolonged usage of the facility.   I can confirm this parking area is managed by an independent company who are responsible for monitoring the car park and taking details of registration numbers. The regulations and signs at the restaurant clearly state the policy and the relevant charges.   I trust you will appreciate that in order to maintain a consistent approach; we have to adhere to the guidelines in place regardless of whether you were in the restaurant for the duration of the stay or not. As such, in a situation such as a clear contravention of parking regulations, we are unable to deal with any specifics or cases on an individual basis. Suffice to say, if a customer contravenes the clearly displayed parking regulations, they will receive a ticket.   Thank you for contacting us and again for the opportunity to comment and if you do wish to pursue the matter, this will need to be done by following the appeals process outlined on the parking ticket.   Kind regards, Michael Kelly Senior Customer Services Manager Customer Services Team McDonald's UK Customer Services 11 - 59 High Road East Finchley London N2 8AW

 

@honeybee13 I will look again at the sticky and try to get it filled out. 

@lookinforinfo and @FTMDave while it's not valid, I don't want to keep receiving threatening letters

- how do you advise I get them to just go away... or is it literally a case of constantly ignoring them?

If they send a claim form, what happens then?

The most recent letter does say that they are passing the case to solicitors, which upon googling are legit / do have the power to take people to court apparently? 

What do you advise, 

Thanks, 

Ryan 

 

[RyanB96]

Hi 

What is the likelihood I should receive a letter of claim, and once received, will I need any documentation?

If so, I'd like to start preparing this in advance so I'm not under time pressure.

I did read the LoC thread you linked above, and noticed you said for PCNs if a LoC is received, then ask for a suitable snotty letter - is that then the end of the process? (Do you have a good example of similar forum/situation you know of)

I'd also like to know, can this actually result in having to go to court to settle this? 

Thanks, 

Ryan

[RyanB96]

1 Date of the infringement 17/04/2022

 

2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date] Not sure what "NTK" is, but "Parking Charge Date" : 22/04/2022
 

3 Date received Letter received: 22/05/2022
 

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [Y/N?] No, don't think so
 

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? There is a photo of my vehicle leaving the car park.
 

6 Have you appealed? [Y/N?] post up your appeal] No, I have not responded to it. I have emailed McDonalds; response to that is in thread above. 
 

Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up n/a
 

7 Who is the parking company? McDonalds car park; ticket is from UK Parking Control LTD (UKPC) 

 

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town] McDonalds - Wakefield 2 - 569 - McDonalds Carpark, Dewsbury Road, Wakefield, WF2 9BY
 

For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under.

Parking on Private Land Appeals (POPLA) 

 

There are two official bodies, the BPA and the IAS.

 

If you have received any other correspondence, please mention it here

• "Final Warning" letter from ZZPS requesting £170 dated 20/06/2022
• "Notice of transfer to solicitors" letter from GCTTCertificated Enforcements Agents dated 18/07/2022

 

Date of infringement - 17/04/22

Date of PCN - 22/04/22

Date of Notification Letter - 22/05/22

Date of Debt Collection Notice Letter - 06/06/22

Date of Final Warning Letter - 20/06/22

Date of Transfer to Solicitors Letter - 18/07/22

 

All PDFs here: 

 

All Pdf.pdf

[RyanB96]

Hi @dx100uk

 

Please see the latest letter from QR Solicitors -

 

The letter is dated 03/08/2022.

 

However, I was away on holiday last week from 08/08/2022 until yesterday (14/08/2022) and it was delivered at some point in that timeframe. 

 

 

03-08-22 - QR Solicitors.pdf

[RyanB96]

Hi @dx100uk can you link me some good examples of threads you recommend reading? 

[RyanB96]

Hi, 

Latest letter is from Bailiffs

I will clean up tomorrow and merge into other PDF file. 

Should I be concerned by this letter? 

Something that has concerned me, is that this letter was not sent to my address, but somehow, my previous (parents) address. How have they gotten my parents address? 

Thanks, 

Ryan 

 

27-10-22 DCBLDCA notice of debt recovery.pdf

[RyanB96]

Thanks Dx, but how did they get my parents address? 

 

My parents address has no connection to my car. 

[RyanB96]

Please advise what I should do here? 

 

Thanks

 

Claimform.pdf

[RyanB96]

Which Court have you received the claim from ? CCBC

Name of the Claimant : UK Parking Control Limited

Claimants Solicitors: DCB Legal 

Date of issue – 20 Mar 2023

Date for AOS -  7th April 2023 

Date to submit Defence -  21st April 2023 

What is the claim for – 

1. The Defendant(D) is indebted to the Claimant (C) for a Parking Charge(s) issued to Vehicle XXXX XXX at McDonalds Wakefield 2 569, Dewsbury Road, Wakefield, WF2 9BY

2. The PCN details are 17/04/2022, 

3. The PCN(s) was issued on private land owned or managed by C. The vehicle was parked in breach of terms on Cs signs (the Contract), thus incurring the PCN(s) 

4. The driver agreed to pay within 28 days but did not. D is liable as the driver or keeper. Despite requests the PCN(s) is outstanding.

The contract entitles C to damages.

AND THE CLAIMANT CLAIMS

1. £170 being the total of the PCN(s) and damages

2. Interest at a rate of 8% per annum pursuant to s.69 of the County Courts Act 1984 from the date hereof at a daily rate of £0,02 until judgement or sooner payment. (£12.24) 

3. Costs and court fees (£35 Court Fee + £50 Legal Representatives Cost) 

Total = £170 + £12.24 + £35 + £50 = £267.24

What is the value of the claim? £267.24

Amount Claimed = £182.24

court fees = £35

legal rep fees = £50

Total Amount = £267.24

PAPLOC - Not that I am aware.

They have started sending letters to my parents address instead of mine, this claim form 8-page pack is the first contact I have seen in months.

I will check with parents to make sure there wasn't another letter prior

- but I'm sure if there was, they would have given it to me at the same time. 

[RyanB96]

Hi

I have followed most of the steps above now 

Where you have put 

"Type your name only, no need to sign anything" - online, the "name" field of MCOL is taken as the "signature" and is a mandatory field - is this okay? I had to put my name to confirm through to exit MCOL. 

RE: the letter for solicitors, I presume you mean do not put signature at the bottom of the letter, only my name. 

I would like you to be able to read through my letter before I print it out and send it. Where you have put: 

PLEASE NOTE - template letters from our library should not be reproduced on the open forums. If you would like to let people know the wording of your letters simply link to the Letter in question.

Does this mean do not put my draft on this forum?

What do you mean "link to the letter in question" - do you mean to "upload" as attachment to this thread and then link to it by "insert" on this thread? 

 

[RyanB96]

Hi Dx, 

It's not that I get confused, I am double checking everything to make sure I do it right.

I am not from the legal world, I am from tech, and when I see a forum post (such as the CPR) one that is from 2018, my natural assumption is that it is likely out of date as in the tech world,

posts go out of date in days - things may have changed

- hence I check everything to make sure I get it right and follow exact instructions

- I have never dealt with something like this before. 

 

I have attached draft letter -

I think I have filled out everything correctly (Blue are the details I have entered, the rest is all as is).

I will fill in my personal details and send first class to DCB Legal recorded/tracked tomorrow 

Thanks for all of your help so far, it is much appreciated!

 

Letter to DCB Legal - Draft.pdf

[RyanB96]

I don’t know..

I guess the address is a previous address on credit file, maybe one of my cards is still registered to parents,

I will have to check, 

I don’t know why they suddenly switched from mine to my parents,

since the car is registered at my address not my parents.

Maybe because I ignored the first letters they just tried a different address? 

[RyanB96]

Yes address on MCOL is correct to my address now 

I am about to post the letter. Just to check

In accordance with CPR 31.15© I undertake to be responsible for your reasonable copying costs incurred in complying with this CPR 31.14 request.

Does this mean I will have fees to pay? 

Thanks,

Ryan 

 

[RyanB96]

Hi Andy, 

I have read CPR31.14 and CPR31.15 already, which confirms I will have to undertake 'reasonable costs'.

But apologies, my question is more "how much will the fees likely be" or "what is reasonable" ...

"reasonable copying costs" means absolutely nothing to me...

if we are literally talking the cost of printing the document, which is pennies, then I don't consider it 'reasonable' to charge for that...

but I am not in the legal business and for all I know they may consider it "reasonable" to stick a £50 premium on it for the effort to find & print... "reasonable" could literally mean anything? 

 

[RyanB96]

Thanks Dave,

 

Let me have a check of other threads again too. 

 

I'll get that letter posted now then! 

[RyanB96]

Just to update / confirm, the letter is posted and I have the certificate of posting. 

[RyanB96]

Hi, 

 

I have just received a response from DCB Legal BY EMAIL (how have they gotten my email? I have never used or given it!) with 4 attachments - me in my car entering car park in colour, me leaving, and then front and back plate zoomed in images too. 

 

 

[RyanB96]

Hi Honeybee,

 

Thank you for the response - 

 

Is there a particular method I should use for this? I have been reading a few other threads, will the following suffice: 

1. Reply telling them that in no circumstances should email be used for any further communication. (+ Block their email)

2. Send them a 2nd class letter to confirm email should not be used for any further communication. (+ Proof of postage) 

 

For the defence, I've copied the POC and the Defence template below. Should I modify the defence to specify which paragraphs are denied as I have seen on other forums, or leave as is per the template, also as done on other forums - is there an optimal? I did have a crack at it, but reverted to the template as I wasn't entirely sure which of my defence paragraphs absolutely denies which of the POC (e.g. is their paragraph 3 denied due to my paragraph 2, or my paragraph 3 - or both?) - do you have advice which is optimal here? 

 

POC:

1. The Defendant(D) is indebted to the Claimant (C) for a Parking Charge(s) issued to Vehicle XXXX XXX at McDonalds Wakefield 2 569, Dewsbury Road, Wakefield, WF2 9BY

 

2. The PCN details are 17/04/2022, 

 

3. The PCN(s) was issued on private land owned or managed by C. The vehicle was parked in breach of terms on Cs signs (the Contract), thus incurring the PCN(s) 

 

4. The driver agreed to pay within 28 days but did not. D is liable as the driver or keeper. Despite requests the PCN(s) is outstanding.

 

The contract entitles C to damages.

AND THE CLAIMANT CLAIMS

1. £170 being the total of the PCN(s) and damages

2. Interest at a rate of 8% per annum pursuant to s.69 of the County Courts Act 1984 from the date hereof at a daily rate of £0,02 until judgement or sooner payment. (£12.24) 

3. Costs and court fees (£35 Court Fee + £50 Legal Representatives Cost) 

Total = £170 + £12.24 + £35 + £50 = £267.24

 

Defence: 

The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim are vague and generic in nature which fails to comply with CPR 16.4.  The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made.

 

1.  It is admitted that the Defendant is the recorded keeper of XXXX XXX.

 

2.  It is denied that the Defendant entered into a contract with the Claimant.

 

3.  As held by the Upper Tax Tribunal in Vehicle Control Services Limited v HMRC [2012] UKUT 129 (TCC), any contract requires offer and acceptance.  The Claimant was simply contracted by the landowner to provide car-park management services and is not capable of entering into a contract with the Defendant on its own account, as the car park is owned by and the terms of entry set by the landowner.  Accordingly, it is denied that the Claimant has authority to bring this claim. 

 

4.  In any case it is denied that the Defendant broke the terms of a contract with the Claimant.

 

5.  The Claimant is attempting double recovery by adding an additional sum not included in the original offer. 

 

6.  The Particulars of Claim is denied in its entirety.  It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief at all.

 

[RyanB96]

For reference, 

 

This is the exact email response body: 

 

Quote

 

Dear Sirs,

 

 

We write in relation to your recent correspondence.  

 

Please see attached requested evidence in relation to the case.

 

 

Kind Regards, 

 

Alexandria Owens

 

DCB Legal Ltd  

 

Tel: 0203 838 7038 | DX 23457 Runcorn 

dcblegal.co.uk | Twitter | Linkedin | Facebook 

 

 

She also attached this attachment (it did not load previously, internet issue) Signs.pdf

Along with a site plan, and original notice to keeper. 

 

 

Edited April 5, 2023 by RyanB96

[RyanB96]

Cool - Defence submitted to MCOL - thank you again for the help so far