Aviva fraudulently processed my data without authorisation o

[BankFodder]

Well we could issue a letter of claim to the FOS and threaten legal proceedings.

It might be prudent at this point simply to send them a reminder and asking them where is the disclosure which on XXX date they promised for 25th of June

[BankFodder]

Okay. I think that what you are particularly interested in is there exchange of information with Aviva with particular reference to the so-called Aviva "process".

You need to find out if there is one – the probably isn't – and if the FOS has seen it – they probably haven't. But if there happens to be one then what does it say.

Obviously keep your eye open for any other interesting information

[BankFodder]

We can do the reply next week. It won't take very long.

However I suggest that you write them now and expressed disappointment that you haven't received any acknowledgement of your complaint to the independent assessor and you would like to know that it has been received and what the timescale is.

I suggest you send a copy of that complaint to them in case they've lost it.

[BankFodder]

Because this is the final letter declining the decision, some of what you have put is not appropriate because it is now too late to suggest other courses of action.

I've edited it appropriately

[BankFodder]

I think in the letter to the independent assessor you should tell them that you have already tried to make a complaint to the ombudsman with the intention that it should go to the independent assessor and despite undertakings on the telephone, you have not received any acknowledgement or any timescale and you are worried now that in fact the matter is not being dealt with and that the FOS is avoiding sending it to the independent assessor

[BankFodder]

I'm sure there fine as they are.

I would make a practice of making sure that letters are sent to as many people as possible so that everybody knows

[BankFodder]

What you are finding already is that even the so-called "independent assessor" which is meant to be independent of the FOS in fact is a limited function of the FOS and which will conduct any so-called investigation reluctantly and as unhelpfully as possible.

Still, you may as well go through the hoops but as we already know, nothing will change.

I seem to remember that you were already advised to go to the independent assessor by somebody from the FOS. Is that correct?

Incidentally, what are the names of the initial investigator who found against you and then the ombudsman who simply went along with it and confirmed

[BankFodder]

I think we have to accept that the approach to the ombudsman in terms of getting a decision against Aviva has broadly failed and there is nothing much else that one can do.
Obviously you must make your complaint to the Independent assessor and in order to do that you will have to follow their "process" and then make the complaint focusing only on the way that the complaint has been handled and avoiding very carefully the merits of the case.
If you do anything which suggests that you are challenging the merits of the case then I'm afraid it will dilute your whole complaint.

One thing I have to say though is that I had understood from an earlier post that you told us that you had not received any approach at all for information before the ombudsman made the decision. However, we see above that they are saying that you have been sent some emails.
Please can you clarify?

Although the approach to the ombudsman has not produced the decision in your favour, he has produced one very valuable piece of information and that is Aviva's own description of what happened including the fact that their own call handler had doubts and had to refer to a manager. Also, the very detailed description of what happened and how it was set up and the fact that it is clear that they were effectively prevented from speaking to you when the policy was set up and that there had been no contact with you throughout the duration of the policy, is extremely helpful.
I doubt whether you would have gotten such a clear and detailed explanation if this had simply been litigated.

When I also hope is now obvious to you and to everyone who deals with the FOS is that they batten down their hatches – especially if they feel challenged. There is no transparency and you singly have to take their word for it that there are processes which were disclosed to them – but clearly they aren't being disclosed to you and for that reason, their methodology is desperately unfair.

This should certainly be one of the points of complaint to the Independent assessor. There is no reason why the Aviva process should be kept confidential.

However what is useful is that the FOS has claimed (and I'm not convinced) that there is a process and that they had sight of it. This means that if you come to litigate against Aviva then that is one of the things which should be disclosed as part of the court bundle.
The court process is much more transparent and of course a much higher quality than the FOS which is really just an industry poodle when it comes to these things.

So the bottom line is that the FOS have found against you. It's rather surprising, in my view. However it seems that a lot of the decision turn on the fact that they considered that you had received 12 communications from Aviva and that you hadn't responded to any of them and they considered that that was evidence that you were in cahoots with your brother.
If you litigate then this point will come up again and I think that you had better have a very clear explanation of this and I would suggest that you produce a tabulated account of the communication attempts, how they were made, dates, and why they didn't come to your notice or why you didn't respond.
No point in producing an explanation now. But get it all ready because I think we need to see it.

So the next steps are to prepare your complaint to the Independent assessor and post a draft here. Keep it short. Use the numbered points which I originally made as a basis.
Wait and see what disclosure is made by Aviva – but don't hold your breath on that.
And then consider suing Aviva for unfair treatment.

If you decide to sue Aviva for unfair treatment then don't expect it to be easy. Aviva will either realise what a mistake they made and try to put their hands up without admitting any liability – or else they might decide to go the distance in which case the case will get very complicated and you will have to be sure of your ground and confident about being able to deal with it.

[BankFodder]

The complaint to the Independent assessor is a complaint in relation only to the way that the ombudsman's enquiry has been conducted. In that respect, I don't see that the police interest in the matter is at all relevant and I think that if you start to raise that issue then it will suggest to the independent assessor that you are making a challenge on the merits of the decision because it could be implied that the ombudsman should have taken that into account – which of course they should have done.
However, I think we have already seen that the whole operation exist simply to rally round themselves and to prevent any questions about how they have conducted your case. I'm afraid I don't have any confidence in the independent assessor. I doubt whether it is truly independent and I don't think you should give them any chance to try and reduce the impact of your complaint by giving them an opportunity to say that some aspect of your complaint cannot be considered by them because it amounts to an attack on the merits of the decision.

Some afraid that you should avoid all mention of the police investigation. That you should not ask for any delays and that you should simply now jump the Hoops that the rules are placing in your way in order to make a complaint to the ombudsman.
If you're at all lucky then there may be some criticism of the way the ombudsman has handled the complaint – but of course all that will do would be to lead to a little slapped wrist on the ombudsman – but with no change in the decision and simply some derisory award to you of a couple of hundred quid in bonbons to make them feel better and to make the independent assessor able to say that they are independent.

There's still lots of time to consider taking Aviva to court. I'm afraid that once the ombudsman investigation found against you, this was always going to be the only solution. It's not a question about getting an award of money but it is a question of getting your credit file cleaned up and to have you exonerated.

I understand that you are under a great deal of stress about this – but we still haven't come for the date for the Aviva's disclosure of your personal data. (When is that anyway?)

For the moment just make the complaint to the Independent assessor and then we will see what Aviva disclose. You can be absolutely certain that they will not disclose any process – particularly as they now know that it is an issue in the dispute.

If that you can be pretty certain that the completely unnecessary extension which Aviva imposed will be used to filter out material to make sure that what you get from them is as unhelpful as possible. Don't imagine that you are going to get any kind of integrity from Aviva. They've already shown how sloppy and negligent and self-serving they can be. Don't expect anything better.

Let's see what you get and then we can talk about a legal action. You can see how you feel about it further on down the line

[BankFodder]

Draft your complaint and we'll have a look

[BankFodder]

When is the deadline for the complaint?

[BankFodder]

Okay, in that case I think you should take a break from this and try to relax a little bit. You need to understand that complaint to the independent assessor will not change anything and so for the moment, absolutely nothing will change. There's nothing you can do to change anything so get used to the situation.

Take a week or 2 to try and calm down and to get everything into perspective. It will be nice if we got some news from the police and I have to say worries me that the police haven't moved in immediately and arrested your brother on the Aviva fraud. I'm afraid that these kind of delays make me feel uncomfortable and make me think that some point down the line they will say that they aren't going to bring charges.

When you get a quite moment in you feel calm then start drafting out a complaint to the Independent assessor and then let us see what you have done – but there is absolutely no hurry and as I say, it won't change anything.

The anything that can change anything now would be to begin a legal action against Aviva and if you did, I have very high expectations that you would succeed. Although I have to say that I was pretty amazed that the ombudsman found against you on the basis of the information that had been given to them by Aviva as to the phone call which led to the setting up of the policy.

After you've calmed down, it would be good idea if you would deal with the communications issue which I referred to above and which was referred to in the ombudsman's decision. That will be very important if you decide to take legal action

[BankFodder]

1 minute ago, Titchytitch said:

 

 

The officer is trying to get to the bottom of it she put everything forward to the economic crime unit who concluded that although fraud had taken place with the companies and its settled they're not out of pocket so there's no financial loss

 

 

 

Of course this is nonsense – and am afraid it shows loud and clear that they don't want to take any action.

[BankFodder]

... and which Aviva claimed to have followed and which the FOS claims to have seen

[BankFodder]

Okay – I expect it's going to be a lot of work but I hope it's productive.

I think you definitely are going to have to make notes as you go. If you follow some of the advice about preparing your court bundle, this may give you some ideas.

I think I would start off by making sure that the bundle was in chronological order, and then numbering the pages with a pen and then creating a spreadsheet index with the number, date of each document, title of the document, any comments.

I think even this will start to give you a feel of what's in there.

Once you have done that, you can start work out if there is anything missing. I think you are especially interested in seeing if there are any processes or procedures included – but I expect there aren't. I think you can be pretty certain that anything abuse will have been excluded as far as they can.

In terms of phone calls, you are going to have to listen to them and make notes. May be a new sheet of paper for each one and then fit that into your indexed file as well.

I'm afraid it's likely to be a lot of work.

When you got it all sorted and indexed, you can compare it against any documents or information that you've already got and see if there's anything missing

[BankFodder]

sorry comma I've been away and still am but could you remind me of when the deadline for complaining to the Independent assessor expires

[BankFodder]

OK - no probs, it will be done well before then

[BankFodder]

Thanks for this update.

I'm sorry that we've left it so long. I'm afraid that I've had a lot of other complicated commitments at the moment and so it's been difficult for me to turn my attention to anything.

I've drafted a complaint below. I'm sure it needs work. It is based on points I made on June 17.

Please will you have a look and comment and then we can amend it.

 

Quote

Dear Independent Assessor

Reference number XXX
 

I am making a complaint about the service standards applied to the investigation of my complaint against Aviva insurance – reference number XXX.

 

I understand that the independent assessor will not interfere in the decision made by the ombudsman but once again, I emphasise that this complaint is about the standard of that investigation although of course I have referred to some of the elements within the ombudsman's decision.
 

My service standards complaint
The ombudsman, who declined to uphold my complaint, based that decision mainly on the fact that Aviva had apparently followed their “process” and because they had followed that ""process"", their action in entering into a contract of motor insurance was fair.

It is important that I emphasise that the decision to reject my complaint turned on the ombudsman's acceptance that there was a "process" and that by following this "process", Aviva had acted fairly.

My service complaint is based on my entirely reasonable belief that the ombudsman has never seen the Aviva "process".
Because the ombudsman had never seen the Aviva "process", the ombudsman was unable to know whether the "process" had been followed.
The ombudsman found that by following the "process" Aviva acted fairly. It was impossible for the ombudsman to reach this decision when they had never had sight of the "process", had no direct knowledge as to whether the "process" had been followed and were unable to judge its fairness in any event.

Aviva themselves admitted that the call handler who took the original fraudulent telephone call was suspicious and uncomfortable about setting up the policy and so they decided to refer the matter to a manager.

It is clear that that had the call handler simply relied on her own instinct, that the fraudulent policy would never have been taken out and none of the resulting events would have happened.
One might say that the failure by the Aviva call handler to rely on her own instinct and the overriding of her concerns by her manager were the root cause of everything that happened as a result.

 

On 2 June 2021 I received a phone call from Aviva complaints department and during that conversation the complaints call handler pointed out that the call handler in XXX year had made a mistake because she had the authority to decide whether or not to provide the insurance cover and she had no need to go to the manager.

Clearly there was a "process" in place but it seems it was not followed. 
In other words, if the call handler in XXX year had adhered to the Aviva “process” the fraudulent policy would never have been provided.

 

My complaint is:

The ombudsman did not require to see any document laying out the Aviva “process” and that they have simply accepted Aviva’s word for it.

It may be that Aviva has deliberately or inadvertently misled the ombudsman.
The ombudsman did not enquire as to whether any "process" was followed by Aviva.
The ombudsman did not assess and Aviva "process" for fairness.

 

If that is the case then the ombudsman’s investigation was not complete and this must surely fall below the FOS service standards.

 

Although this is not directly relevant to the ombudsman investigation or to my complaint, you may be interested to know that on XXX date my brother was arrested by the police and charged with an offence in relation to this fraud and others.

It should go without saying that if my brother has profited from the proceeds of crime in the form of fraudulently obtained loans and insurance policies then the victims of these thefts are the insurance companies or lenders which have been dishonestly persuaded to provide him with their money or the services.

It is a wholly unacceptable situation that I, as a victim of domestic abuse, should be required to repay to Aviva the proceeds of my brothers fraudulent activities and also be saddled with the catastrophic effect upon my own financial reputation amongst credit reference agencies and financial institutions.

The ombudsman service by its failure to conduct a proper investigation has been complicit in this unfair treatment of me and complicit in the domestic abuse of which I am a victim.

For the avoidance of doubt, domestic abuse is not necessarily limited to the immediate family but also can occur within the extended family.

An encouraging article written recently by Theresa May pointed this out and of course it is true. (I can provide you with a reference for this if you want.)

Finally I would point out that I have attempted to obtain the ombudsman service policies on domestic abuse and also the domestic abuse policy of Aviva, and neither have been forthcoming.

Independent assessors timescale

I understand that the timescale for a decision by the independent assessor is 14 days. However I do understand that it will be necessary to ask Aviva to provide certain information and therefore I am indicating right now that I’m happy that the 14 day deadline be extended to a full 28 days.

Yours faithfully

 

 

[BankFodder]

But I seem to remember somewhere that there was another process which should have been followed and that was that the ombudsman should have come back to you before the final report.

Please can you remind me about that and point out where it was written – or maybe even quote that part here

[BankFodder]

Yes but I thought it was laid out somewhere on the ombudsman's website that they would come to you with a draft decision and invite you to make final comments on it. Have I got that wrong?

[BankFodder]

Yes I understand that. You said that before. However you are missing the point that I seem to remember that somewhere the ombudsman's process is described and in that description it says that you will be given sight of the draft decision and invited to make any final comments before the decision is finalised.

Have I got that wrong?
If that's correct, then where is that piece of writing please?

[BankFodder]

Thank you.

I see that it simply says that the ombudsman "may decide"….

That's unfortunate. I thought that the ombudsman was obliged to do that.

[BankFodder]

Yes but that only happens in the event that the ombudsman has decided to exercise discretion and generate a provisional report.

The asking of both parties to make final representations is predicated on the ombudsman's decision whether or not to generate a provisional report.

[BankFodder]

Ok well if you are happy with the letter, wait for a few hours for any feedback from the others and then send it recorded delivery and by email as well to the independent assessor email address

[BankFodder]

Now we have to start turning our attention to Aviva.

This thread has gone on a long time and I expect there will be more to add

I think that it will be a good idea to start a new thread.

 

Could you please start a new trade with a brief title

Something like unfair treatment by Aviva in fraudulent insurance application

 

Then if you could start off by giving a very few brief facts. We don't need to go through the whole thing we don't need to to talk about the ombudsman.

You simply need really to talk about the fact that they opened an insurance policy because of a fraudulent application by your brother and that the call handler felt uncomfortable but still approved the application.

And now the result is that they are pursuing you for the recovery of the money which has been stolen by your brother

And that he has now been arrested.

 

Quote some of the findings in the ombudsman decision where are Aviva have given their account of exactly what happened.