NPE/BW ANPR PCN PAPLOC now claimform - wrong reg - MJB Winelodge, Bridge Road, Lowestoft, Suffolk NR32 3LR

[SCDH]

Hi,

 

I've just received a letter and email from BW Legal asking me to pay £160 for an alleged parking offence from back in February 2018.  They say that the breakdown of the balance is £100 PCN charge and their client's debt recovery costs of £60.

 

They are acting on behalf of their client National Parking Enforcement as a result of me parking in a private car park and failing to correctly use a pay and display machine. 

 

However, I did pay for a parking ticket from the machine and it was clearly displayed on the windscreen.  At the time it was dark and the parking machine was poorly lit, so it might be that the 5-step process for getting a ticket from the machine was not followed correctly but a ticket was definitely issued and clearly displayed on my car windscreen.

 

Unfortunately, I don't have the ticket anymore because at the time I had no reason to think there would be a problem and wouldn't need it.  Having said that, ANPR video would hopefully verify me buying the ticket and displaying it.

 

After numerous letters from NPE and Zenith Collections, I got a written statement from the chip shop owner nearby to verify that he gave me a pound to put in the parking meter while I waited for my fish and chip order and that I told him this had been done.

 

Eventually, the letters from Zenith asking for ever increasing amounts of money for non-payment stopped, until this letter from BW Legal. 

 

In their letter, BW Legal are offering £15 a month instalment plan and asking me to get in touch or it may proceed through their legal process.  Is it advisable to contact them to explain the situation or am I in a no-win situation and need to pay? The only other option is to fight the case if they take me to court but I don't really want the hassle or the risk of a CCJ against my name.

 

I suppose the bottom line is, can they enforce not using a parking machine correctly if a ticket has been issued?

 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

Many thanks.

 

 

[SCDH]

Many thanks honeybee13,

 

As requested, my answers are as follows:

 

Please answer the following questions for ANPR.

 

1 Date of the infringement 23rd February 2018

 

2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date] 28th February 2018

 

3 Date received Can't remember - approximately within a week.
 

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [Y/N?] Yes it does.
 

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? Yes, a photos of my car entering and leaving and the registration number
 

6 Have you appealed? [Y/N?] post up your appeal] No
 

Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up N/A
 

7 Who is the parking company? National Parking Enforcement

 

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town] MJB Winelodge, Bridge Road, Lowestoft, Suffolk NR32 3LR
 

For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under. Independent Appeals Service www.theias.org

 

 

 

I've attached the statement from the chip shop owner to help verify that a parking ticket had been paid for and displayed.

 

[SCDH]

Many thanks site team for your help. 

Apologies for not following the upload guide. 

Hopefully I've uploaded the merged files correctly while redacting all personal information.

 

NPE 2018 PCN-NTK - 2018 BW threat-o-gram - my appeal to chipshop.pdf

[SCDH]

Hi team, again many thanks for your help.

dx100uk re your question;

the first I heard of getting the  fine- charge was from the Parking Charge Notice with a £100   fine- charge reduced to £60 if paid within 14 days as shown on the PDF. 

Regarding the in out photos on the NTK, I removed them as they obviously had my reg number on which I thought had to be removed as personal information. 

However, if you would like me to upload it again with the photos just let me know.

FTM Dave; no problem and thanks very much for your helpful reply. 

Okay, understood about ANPR not being able to record video footage other than images of the car coming in and out.

Good to hear there's no chance of getting a CCJ unless defying the court.

Thanks for the confirmation about the statement from the chip shop owner and advice to keep ignoring them.

Good point about the registration number. 

Yes I did but maybe I did make an error when entering the car's registration number? 

There was no lighting in the car park other than street lights from the road several meters away.

your advice would be to ignore the letters from BW legal unless they threaten court action with a 'Letter Before Court' letter?

[SCDH]

I'm not sure what you mean?  It's called a parking charge on the NTK, isn't that the same thing?

[SCDH]

HoneyBee and DX;

 thanks for clarifying the penalty charge notice legalities and the fact that they have to go through a civil court. 

As requested, I've attached the front of the NTK with photos but without personal details. 

Although not shown clearly on the PDF image, you can just make out my registration number on the photos in the letter.

FTM Dave;

 thanks for your input again.

That's correct, no mention of me not paying and good to hear that their charge of failing to correctly use a pay and display machine wouldn't stand much chance in court. 

Excellent and hilarious letter from your link :). 

Also, very useful if it ever gets as far as a civil court action. 

Yes, I'll ignore this unless I get an LBA/LBC.

the parking machine and car park are 65 miles from where I live but I do visit Lowestoft occasionally but probably not for a while.

When I'm next there I'll take photos during the day and night as you suggested and upload them to the thread.

DX;

Good to know that rules on private parking going through parliament forbid wrong reg issues resulting in a speculative invoice.

Really appreciate all your help and support which has put my mind at rest and given me clarity over the situation.

  I''ll make a donation in the morning.

NTK Front With Photos.pdf

[SCDH]

No, it was my own car, not a hire car.  I think they have access to the registered keeper's details via the DVLA and use those when sending out the NTK letters.

 

Thanks DX.  Interesting to know that they aren't allowed to offer credit.

[SCDH]

Thanks lookinforinfo; That's interesting! 

 

I also found this info on the following link: 

https://www.resolver.co.uk/rights-guide/private-parking-tickets

I made a mistake when paying by phone/online/Pay and Display.

The BPA’s new Code of Conduct says that if you make a mistake when paying by phone, online or via Pay and Display, you should expect a parking firm to sort things out at the first appeal stage.

 

The code says that firms may try to charge you a ‘modest’ fee of no more than £20 to cover their costs, but says that it should revert to the charge amount if you appeal.

[SCDH]

Thanks, let's hope so.  Not just for me but for anyone else who gets harassed and threatened with court action for an entry error.  Everyone's input and advice on this thread has been really appreciated and it has given me the confidence to fight this all the way should it come to a civil court action, albeit unlikely. 

[SCDH]

Hi,

As FTM Dave requested earlier, I have attached photos in the PDF of the the parking meter at different distances, the official parking notice and the distance between the street lights on both sides.  Next time I'm in Oulton Broad at night when this happened, I'll take photos of how dark the machine is without dedicated machine lighting and poor street lights.

 

Many thanks

Parking Meter Images.pdf

[SCDH]

Thanks and interesting to know that some machines have problems with certain letters and numbers.  As mentioned, photos were asked for earlier so I thought I would post them just out of interest.

[SCDH]

Hi lookinforinfo,

 

No problem, regarding the 'Pay on Foot car park' sign there are two, one on the inside at the front of the carpark approximately 5-10 meters from the entrance and another one on the inside at the back of the car park roughly in the middle.  There isn't one at the main entrance to the car park.  Both are situated inside the car park front and back.

Edited July 23, 2021 by SCDH

[SCDH]

Thanks lookinforinfo. The sign's text at the font is facing internally so it can't read until you are inside the carpark looking outwards several meters to the right of the entrance.  Therefore, the wording isn't visible until you are actually inside the carpark. I don't know if that makes any difference but I would have thought the point about incorrect entry being de-minimis would be the bigger issue.

[SCDH]

Thanks gents.  No sign is visible to read until you have entered the carpark, certainly not on entry so on the face of it it's not possible to offer a contract or invitation to treat prior to entering.  I'll try and get carpark area photos next time so you can see the positioning of the signs. 

 

Interesting point about the wording.  Yes, I fully intend to ignore them until a Letter Of Claim or LBC is received.  I've had an email from BW Legal last week enticing me to call them for a possible reduced fine.  Of course, if I were to do that they would then badger me with calls and texts as well as emails and letters so I've got no intention of calling them.  They even stated that we will continue to call and text me if I do not respond, so why would I? The email from last week is attached as a PDF, of course minus personal details.

 

Agree, greed is what drives them and of course by trying to wear people down with constant letters and threats, some people will give in and pay just to get them off their backs!

 

  Appreciate your help.

BW Legal 2nd Email.pdf

[SCDH]

Thanks.

[SCDH]

For all the contributors on this thread, many thanks for all your help so far.

 

I have just received a Letter of Claim from BW Legal. along with several other documents including...

 

(1) ANNEX 1 INFORMATION SHEET - Which starts: You have received this notice because a business intends to take you to court in relation to a debt.

 

(2) Pre-Action Protocol For Debt Claims - Particulars of debt - Statement of Account - Warning of court proceedings

 

(3) REPLY FORM - YOU HAVE 30 DAYS FROM THE DATE AT THE TOP O FTHIS ENCLOSED LETTER TO FILL IN AND RETURN THIS FORM.  IF YOU DON'T, IT COULD END UP IN COURT PROCEEDINGS. 

SECTION 1: Do you owe the debt? BOX A - I agree I won the debt,  BOX B - I owe some debt but not all of it, BOX C - I don't know whether I owe the debt, BOX D - I dispute the debt.  SECTION 2: How will you pay? BOX E - I will pay what I owe now, BOX F - I will pay but I need time to pay BOX G - I am getting or intend to get debt advice, BOX H - I have provided documents, BOX I - I need more documents or information.  Reverse side - Income & Expenditure Form.

 

Do I complete the REPLY FORM and tick (BOX D - I dispute the debt) with a covering letter and if so, advice on how that letter should be worded would be really appreciated.

 

Thanks in advance.

[SCDH]

Thanks Honeybee,

 

I did post the details from the sticky on the first page but here they are again unless you mean something else?

 

As requested, my answers are as follows:

 

Please answer the following questions for ANPR.

 

1 Date of the infringement 23rd February 2018

 

2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date] 28th February 2018

 

3 Date received Can't remember - approximately within a week.
 

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [Y/N?] Yes it does.
 

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? Yes, a photos of my car entering and leaving and the registration number
 

6 Have you appealed? [Y/N?] post up your appeal] No
 

Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up N/A
 

7 Who is the parking company? National Parking Enforcement

 

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town] MJB Winelodge, Bridge Road, Lowestoft, Suffolk NR32 3LR
 

For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under. Independent Appeals Service www.theias.org

Letter of Claim.pdf

[SCDH]

Thanks Brassnecked,

 

I did set the search box at the top of the page to Google but couldn't make too much sense out of the results?  I'm sure I'll get the gist in due course.

[SCDH]

Thanks dx.  That makes more sense and better results.

[SCDH]

My first draft attached is based on a post half way down the link from FTM Dave. However, I would like to find info referring to mistyped reg numbers and how it's not acceptable to fine motorists for a mistyped entry.  Any ideas how to find this info or proposed info so I can quote section and para to back up the info in the letter would be really appreciated.

 

Many thanks.

 

 

Parking code enforcement framework - GOV.UK

WWW.GOV.UK

---

We are consulting on new measures to improve the regulation of the private parking industry.

 

Others have said how the new

Reply Letter of Claim - BW Legal.pdf

Edited September 6, 2021 by SCDH

[SCDH]

Many thanks FTM Dave.  Really appreciate your help with this!

 

That's great and have quoted chapter and verse in the revised 'Reply Letter of Claim'.

Reply Letter of Claim - BW Legal.pdf

[SCDH]

Thanks for taking a look. I just didn't want cause confrontation for the sake of it but I take your point and I appreciate there are no guarantees.  

 

Good advice about copied to COPIED TO NATIONAL PARKING ENFORCEMENT LTD and quoting the PCN reference number on the letters.

 

I was going to ask if the letters needed to be registered post but you've answered my question by getting certificates of posting.

 

I'll update the thread on the response or lack of when their cut off date to reply has passed.

 

 

[SCDH]

Dear all,

 

I've just had a letter from BW Legal (attached) which is in response to my letter after receiving their LBC.  As you will see, they quote Parkingeye V Beavis in the fact that they don't have to consider loss as a relevant factor.

 

While they state a full and correct reg must be entered to avoid becoming liable for a PCN, they obviously don't mention that it's a demines offence but are happy to discuss it in court.

 

I would also value opinions on their view that once I left the carpark to receive payment for the meter the offence was complete.

 

Thanks in advance again for all your help.

Snotty Letter Response.pdf

[SCDH]

I've attached it minus names and dates.  Not so much a witness statement as he didn't see me put the money in the meter.  More a statement of payment really.

Statement.pdf

[SCDH]

Because it demonstrates that payment was made and when I mentioned it on the forum earlier the response was positive.  If it goes to court they would see that statement anyway.