Bank Park ANPR PCN Claimform - Blue Car Park 2 Merry Hill Brierley DY5 1QX - *** Claim Dismissed ***

[Andy711351]

Essentially, I do want to submit a supplementary defence WS. if they are allowed to submit a supplementary WS well beyond the deadline of 1st Feb ( they serve /filed the supplement on the 17th Feb 2021) why can it i file/serve a  supplement  defence by tomorrow

 

Somehow, by either an email or a proper Supplementary  Defence, I do want to get something to the court before the court date of 8th of April 2021

[Andy711351]

Hi Dave

 

Nice to hear from you

I called the court today to confirm whether they are now aware that I have asked to be present in hearing

 

It was at 9 am

 

she wasn't the mist friendly

 

She said everything theirs and email we have to to and fro to the judge.

 

I said Ive only sent you a single email two weeks ago asking to be present in person and because i hadnt heard back, i just wanted to make sure you are aware

 

She went on an d on and on about how short staff they were, how there was only 2 of them and her colleague had called sick and how they had 22 delay in dealing with emails etc....

 

I really wanted to say I want to email objecting to the claimants sending in the supp WS late and i just felt 

 

I am really thinking of feeling/serving a supp defendant WS and if the claimant then askes the judge to dismiss it because it is too late, then I can sue the same reasoning as to why their supp WS should be dismissed in view of breaching the deadline. Do you think its worth submitting a supp defence Ws? Seems that courts/judges are bit lenient with deadlines, so why not me having a second bite at the cherry? Or is it a terrible idea?

 

 

[Andy711351]

Hello all

 

Thanks Dave,lookin, dx100 for all the feedback

 

What I will do now is just try and write on a paper what i will say in court so i sound cohesive and done panic.

 

I think you have all made excellent points and I sincerely thank you very much.

 

Please let me know if , once I have prepared the draft of my so called 'speech' to say in front of the judge, whether its worth posting here for comments or not

 

DX100 VCS contracts ?? VCS, not sure what that stands for. Can you please elaborate and where do i get a copy or example of such a contract from .

 

Thanks

 

[Andy711351]

Last point please 

 

if you look at the detailed contract whats that date at the footnote of all the pages 

 

In the Supp WS attached, exhibit 6 is included with the contract etc between them and the intu leasholders etc...There is a date at the footnote of all the pages of exhibit saying in small print 'Authorisation Date 09032016.    Is that relevant ??. that footnote has a date of 2016 but the first page of the contract reads commencement date 11th March 2019 expiry date 10th march 2020. whats that date of 2016 at the footnote and is it relevant?

[Andy711351]

Lookin..

 

Thanks for the reply

 

'Andy the authorisation code is actually 0903016. The signage next to the pay machine says it is for the Market car park. Is that another name for where you parked or a totally different car park?'

 

My answer:

 

In the inital WS the claimant had included a signage from Market car park. That was a mistake by them. They had mistakenly included a signage from another site totally remote from the car park i went to. I pointed that out in my defence WS. In reply, in their Supplement WS, they acknowledged they had included the market one by mistake, and therefore  asked the judge to ignore it as it was a 'clerical error'. hence that signage is not relevant

 

[Andy711351]

looking for info

 

Thankyou so much for all the effort you are doing

 

I genuinely feel bad/guilty that you are doing all this but equally so grateful

 

I thankyou for all the attention to all the details.

 

I thank everyone who is contributing to the case as I prepare  for the hearing on Thursday

 

I hope yo have a good day tomorrow, and please please I dont want you to exert yourself  too much for my case  because you have been fantastic and I really appreciate it whatever the outcome

 

Thankyou again 

 

Goodnight

[Andy711351]

received this from the court by email

 

' 1. The hearing listed on 8 April 2021 shall take place as an attended hearing. Only the claimant's representative and the defendant may attend the hearing.'

 

 

So I take it that I can go in person. Does this also mean that the hearing has totally been converted to an attended one? or can the claimant still be via telephone link

 

 

Can i take my ipad into the court to show the judge the images on my ipad of the signs?

[Andy711351]

Thankyou . Im glad its a hearing on person then

 

Please dont laugh but I did in fact visit the car park on the 16th January of this year just to familiarise myself with the layout of signs because the alleged contravention occurred in June 2019 and I just wanted to check the signs out in person.

 

i took some photos of the entrance etc...

 

i wondered how to post them here and get your views. The judge may allow me to show them on my ipad but thought to see what you guys thought. nothing to lose, right?

 

 

So whats the best way to upload a few pictures. i taken them with my iphone

 

Thanks

[Andy711351]

Thanks Lookingforinfo for such a thorough and detailed analysis

 

I am amking noted of all the points. only thing im not sure of and dont want to get muddled up is the references. Not being a legal person, I dont want to start quoting things Im not really familiar with in terms of previous cases in case the Judge or their solicitor is more clued up than me. 

 

the bit from National Consumer Service that you quoted, is that something a previous defendant against Bank park used in the court? 

 

Thanks again

 

[Andy711351]

Ive got some phots in Jpeg. Ive used paint to convert to tiff/gif but still to large to load here.

 

Whats the best way please ?

need your views on the pics please

 

 

[Andy711351]

photos 

photos.pdf

[Andy711351]

sorry for these pics but I took these recently from the same ar park on a recent visit

 

As eluded earlier, the shopping centre really dont intend to give the shoppers a hard time. so if they need longer, they are invited to park in the other car parks which are free

 

the entrance to the car park has no signs. the only big sign is the once advertising the short stay car park. The first 'proper signage' is where you can see MATALAN and theres a signage with what looks like a camera or CCTXV above it. That signage has is back to the entrance so the driver has no choice to decide to  enter or not

 

Lok how high the signage is. I Took a meter and its at least 2 meters high. ow is a driver expected to get out of the car, read the tiny terms and conditions, which are at least 2 meters high

 

 

OOPS sorry DX100

 

my apologies

 

I am so sorry

[Andy711351]

The centre has around 217 stores and over 10,000 free parking spaces, with a total retail floorspace of 1,671,000 square feet (155,200 m²) making the centre the eighth largest in the United Kingdom, behind Westfield London, the MetroCentre, Bluewater, Trafford Centre and Westfield Stratford City.^[1]

 

^{Above from Wkipaedia. Am I expected to walk from shop to shop> 9600 spaces ebacsue they know that most shopeprs will drive between car parks which is what i did}

[Andy711351]

Thanks Dave

 

fair enough

 

I will try and take my ipad/pc if allowed. I will ask the judges permission, even though the phots were not included in my WS

 

However, if the claimant is allowed to   :  ( and remember they have legal representatives who have been surely to court many more times than me and therefore be familiar with CPR rules)

 

1. Ignore My request (Defence) as clearly stated in my original not be be served any documents by electronic means

2. Ignore the deadline of the 1st of feb for any WS to be filed and served ( remember they filed and served the supplementary on the 17th of Feb)

 

3. Serve me the first WS less than 48 working  hours ( they filed served the documents on 15th january 2021 and that was a Friday. My only chance of reply was the 18th of January , so again deliberate 

 

4. use the excuse of clerical error /typographical error more than once ( therefore more likely to be deliberate then an error)

 

Then I really hope the Judge on the day, despite me not having included the latest phots in my original WS, would make exception and allow me to show the photos.

 

In a way they have demonstrated contempt of court by their4  actions above. Either we all follow the correct rules or if the Judge is going to allow them to get away with all the above four points then i feel its a bit Harsh to deny me the opportunity . They should not just  be allowed to get away with excuses such as clerical errors and if a judge does not home in on this then actually I admit i do lose a bit of faith in the system.

 

 

 

[Andy711351]

Thanks Dx

 

I think therefore I would just stay silent on these points as you advise

 

Regarding the phots I will ask if the ipad ones are allowed. Ill try printing g them off tomorrow, but it would be in blackand white.

 

Question though , if allowed to use them do you think the phots i posted a few posts ago, which have been hidden are actually in my favour? thats because at the entrance it says on the big logo

 

" Short stay Car Park.. 4 hours free parking. need longer? Wehave 9600 spaces in our long stay car parks"

 

does this actually help my case ?

 

Ill try my best to ask the judge to disregard their supp WS

 

CPR 32.10 is the sanction for witness statements. It states:

“If a witness statement or a witness summary for use at trial is not served in respect of an intended witness within the time specified by the court, then the witness may not be called to give oral evidence unless the court gives permission.”

they've produce a detailed 9 paged contract etc... so I want to disallow that

 

Two differences are immediately apparent:

• There is one sanction for witness evidence but two for expert evidence. In both cases the respective witness or expert may not give oral evidence. The expert report, however, is also barred but the witness statement does not (at first blush) seem to be.
• The witness sanction is automatic. It is triggered by a failure to serve the statement by the court deadline. The expert sanction is not linked to the court deadline, all that is required is that the report be “disclosed”. Does this really mean it can be disclosed at any time?

[Andy711351]

Thanks

 

Im reading through every single post here summarising then reading up on a few CPRs

 

 

[Andy711351]

 

Dave , in reference to your post #133, 

 

'Or they might send someone local to the court who has no right to address the court, which is what you need to read up on'

 

Claimant WS Para 29):

 

 

I may not be able to attend the hearing. Should this be the case, I will instruct an advocate to attend on my behalf and ask that the Court accepts this as my written notice given pursuant to CPR 27.9(1). Should I be unable to attend, I request the Court decides the claim in my absence, taking into account this Statement and any other evidence I may file. This paragraph demonstrates my compliance with paragraphs (a) and (b) of CPR 27.9(1). 29. In the event an advocate does attend the hearing, I request their fee be added to the amount sought.

 

 

Question:

 

1. Has the claimant covered himself /all eventualities if he or his representative dont turn up but they send someone local?

 

2. How do I find out that whomever does turn up has the right or not to represent them. I dont know what the claimant or their nominated representativ look like to be then able to tell the judge, that the person before 'us' is neither the claimant nor his his legal  representer, so has not right to address the court.  Even if they do send Mr Joe Bloggs, hasnt the claimant covered himself by the para 29 above?

 

 

 

[Andy711351]

The Claimant also in his initial WS states that

 

'I do not intend to comment on the Letter of Claim, which for the avoidance of doubt was complaint with Pre-Action Protocol, because the Defendant did not respond to it. I respectfully submit that the Defendant should lose the right to raise complaints about a letter that they could have responded to with those concerns. Perhaps if the Defendant had done so, we would not be here now'

 

My Q

 

Why did the claimant not even show a copy of the ' Notice of Debt recovery letter' which normally follows the  Reminder Notice?

 

In their exhibits they have a copy of the NTK and a copy of the reminder.

 

Why haven't they included anywhere in their WS or indexed bundle any of the ' Notice of debt recover letter ' by dcb legal and the 'Letter of Claim' following that,  by dcb legal.

 

Can I actually ask the judge to put them to strict proof where the extra £50 came from as they have no  proof that they ever showed me where the extra £50 came from.  All they have included is the NTK of £90, then the POC of £150 with no evidence ever that they added the £50 . ( I have copies of their debt recovery letter and LBC saying they have added the extra £50, but they havent submitted this to the court, so can i put them to strict proof for an invoice as to where it arose from?

[Andy711351]

Thanks Dave

 

Reda through itand is much clearer now

 

Just another Q please

 

Does that mean if BP director doesnt turn up, and neither someone from DCB legal ( their legal representatives), but a local cheaper solicitor/legal rep turns up, they have no right of audience because they are not from DCB legal? Are you implying  that the legal rep MUST be from DCB legal, otherwise they have no right of audience?

 

Or are you implying that its ok to get a local solicitor who isnt from DCB legal, but they have no right of audience because they are not familiar with the case. In essence what im asking is if the local rep is legally or Paralegally qualified, on what basis cant they haev the right of audience. Ive read through the blog but still not clear  on what basis is the local guy, if legally trained or Paralegally trained, has no right of audioence?

 

 

[Andy711351]

Hello

 

Im in the waiting area of the court

 

my hearing is the only one happing on site

 

all others are online

 

Havent seen the claimant yet but Im stuck in a seminar room on my own and they may be here but kept apart

[Andy711351]

claimant turned up

 

Lewis Jukes

 

independent advocate

 

by elms legal

come from wales

 

satred asking me about defence and whether this from internet

we are awaitng to go in

[Andy711351]

He just says he wasnt even aware there was an order for a hearing

 

He thought is was a tel hearing

 

H e says he has been to law school etc.. 

[Andy711351]

He says he is independent advocate then said he has been inserted by Elms?

 

so is he independent or works for Elms

 

he says he is self employed

[Andy711351]

he is confirming things with me

 

like is this the signage that you said was not belonging to the site

 

he is just checking things withme

 

he seems uncertain

 

 

[Andy711351]

he is confirming the charge

 

100 or 90

 

then he says i will be claiming 90