Question about appeal and tribunal appeal reasons

[Drmoonshine]

Very quick run down I'm a hgv driver 

 

Was suspended for exiting cab with incorrect ppe on a site

 

Had a letter with invitation for a hearing attended this yesterday

 

Following company policy and also acas minimum disciplinary guidelines  they have not provided any evidence against me prior to the hearing they have also not provided any letter with information on what the grounds for disaplinary are nor have they supplied me with possible outcomes of said disciplinary hearing. Acas state this should be included as any outcome of a disaplinary should.not come as a surprise to the employee..... 

 

I'm also thinking if they do go ahead and dismiss me for what they'll probably say is gross misconduct can I bring more then a single point of appeal against them at a tribunal and internal appeal. As I think the action taken against me should have  been less then dismissal as it would have been my first error with the company in 3 years and also obviously I'd be going for unfair dismissal 

 

Please only reply if you have experience with these matters. 

 

I will be going to see CAB and also a solicitor if needed in the next few weeks. Just getting my appeal letter ready knowing they'll probably dismiss me.

 

 

So yeah incase you missed my question can I bring more then one appeal reason against an employer when going through internal appeals process and at tribunal 

 

Unfair dismissal and to harsh an outcome etc 

[Emmzzi]

You can appeal on more than one point.

 

Was yesterday the disciplinary, or an investigation meeting? Was that clear in your invitation to attend?

[Drmoonshine]

Exact lettering is I am writing to confirm the investigation meeting.

 

Please elaborate on why you ask incase I am missing something 

 

Also thank you for replying and helping 

[Emmzzi]

The investigation is just to find out what happened. After the investigation they will decide if there is a case to be heard, and there may or may not be a disciplinary. You have not been to a disciplinary hearing yet.

 

Sit tight, wait for the next letter, if there is one. That should list the allegations and also your right to be accompanied.

 

You may be a little premature for ET claims and appeals just yet. Have they said what next steps are and when you will hear?

 

 

[Drmoonshine]

Only that I will be updated this week. 

 

So what your saying then is I should recieve a letter inviting me for a disciplinary hearing and attend a disciplinary. I thought the disciplinary was to give you the outcome of the investigation.

 

 

It seems a little odd that I have an investigation meeting I am asked question and given the chance to reply to the questions. It seemed odd that in this meeting I was shown evidence against me that I had not previously seen. Surely I should have been given the evidence first before being asked questions about it. It feels like they are building a case against me at the investigation meeting......

[Emmzzi]

At the investigation yes, they are seeing if they can build a case.

 

Like the police interview you before deciding if you are going to be charged. Not everyone is charged as some people have done nothing wrong!

 

If you tell people what the investigation is about before they go in, a proportion will use that knowledge to prepare really good lies. That's why companies don't do it.

 

I would have a read up on the ACAS site of guidelines for both investigations and disciplinaries. 

 

https://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=1874

[Drmoonshine]

On 16/07/2019 at 14:35, Emmzzi said:

On 16/07/2019 at 14:35, Emmzzi said:

At the investigation yes, they are seeing if they can build a case.

 

Like the police interview you before deciding if you are going to be charged. Not everyone is charged as some people have done nothing wrong!

 

If you tell people what the investigation is about before they go in, a proportion will use that knowledge to prepare really good lies. That's why companies don't do it.

 

I would have a read up on the ACAS site of guidelines for both investigations and disciplinaries. 

 

https://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=1874

 

 

Hi Emmzzi,

 

I have received the letter today inviting me to a disciplinary hearing. The letter states that i may be  dismissed it does not give any other possible outcomes. Just says the outcome of the hearing may result in your contact being terminated by reason of dismissal. Am i being over picky should it also include other possible outcomes? i peronally know its a forgone conclusion and so do they ''I FEEL''

 

ALSO

 

still have not been furnished with ANY evidence against me. no evidence''photos''  or whitness statments    only received the letter and nothing else. Is this a serious breach? would it make a decent tribunal case against them ?  

If so shouldi just let them sack me and then go ahead and make an internal appeal against them. also what do i do if they present this against me at the actual hearing thank you once again 

                                                                                                                                                               

[Emmzzi]

If it's a big company it's probably just a standard letter so don't read anything into it. 

 

Have they advised you of your right to be accompanied? You should think about the best (level headed, great note taker, pays attention to detail) person to take with you.

 

It would be appropriate now to ask for full details of allegations and evidence. IMO it is generally better to keep a job than lose it and go to ET; less stress and loss of income for you!

 

 

[Emmzzi]

PS you may find it helpful to refer to point nine of this book when asking for more info. Do it in writing, and keep a copy.

 

https://www.acas.org.uk/media/1047/Acas-Code-of-Practice-on-Discipline-and-Grievance/pdf/11287_CoP1_Disciplinary_Procedures_v1__Accessible.pdf

[Drmoonshine]

12 minutes ago, Emmzzi said:

If it's a big company it's probably just a standard letter so don't read anything into it. 

 

Have they advised you of your right to be accompanied? You should think about the best (level headed, great note taker, pays attention to detail) person to take with you.

 

It would be appropriate now to ask for full details of allegations and evidence. IMO it is generally better to keep a job than lose it and go to ET; less stress and loss of income for you!

 

 

Trust me I have told them right through my suspension that I really dont want to lose the job as it is good money plus company car

 

I know the owners man and wife and I know what they are like. They are snakes and trust me they will 100% be sacking me. This is why I am trying to play them at there own game. I have a wife and 3 kids finding another job is possible plenty out there but it's a bloody pain. 

 

There has been less work for the company recently I think this is just a good reason to thin the numbers. 

 

My relationship with them after all of this is damaged. In all fairness I would much rather just move on to better things 

[Emmzzi]

Ok. If you have decided that is what is going to happen, and you are not going to fight it, the best advice I can give you is to record factually (not your opinion, just what happened) every step of the process. Then come back after it's done.

 

 

[Drmoonshine]

1 minute ago, Emmzzi said:

Ok. If you have decided that is what is going to happen, and you are not going to fight it, the best advice I can give you is to record factually (not your opinion, just what happened) every step of the process. Then come back after it's done.

 

 

Thank you 

[Shelley181146]

Drmoonshine,

I have just been in a similar position with a haulage cowboy.

I was a 7.5 tonne driver and only with him for 9weeks 2days, but i have just literally won my employment tribunal for wrongful dismissal (yesterday)

I represented myself against his solicitor,  and wrongful dismissal is a hard issue to fight but i did it.

I will say, taking a case to E.T is a very stressful time but can be done.

If your up to the challenge even just on principle,  you would be making life hellish for your employer during this period not to mention the time and costs involved.

If you believe they are using this as a way to reduce their wage bill personally,  I'd go at it.

However, as you are aware, there are many similar jobs out there and you may well prefer to just find one and get on with your life.

Things to consider:

1 Have you been given a written statement of Terms and Conditions of Employment  (contract)?

2 Does it provide and examples of gross misconduct?

3 Have you any evidence to deny their claims?

4 Do you have any witnesses that will support your defence?

5) What is your length of service with this company and have you had any other issues, including severe tacho infringements?

 

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/417374-employment-tribunal-respondent-vexacious-success/?tab=comments#comment-5002421