VCS ANPR 2015 PCN claimform - Berkeley Centre Sheffield S11 8PN ***Claim Discontinued***

[anniebattlemum]

I am trying to help my daughter who has a 19month old baby and is a working Mum with no time to do the research.

 

She has received a County Court Notification re overstaying the 2 hour maximum at the Berkeley Centre retail park in Sheffield S11 8PN. There was a similar case filed by John7n in May 2018.  However my daughter's claim dates back to August 2015.

 

I understand that in November 2015, the Supreme Court ruled in the Beavis case that firms could impose a charge for overstaying and was wondering whether this ruling applies retrospectively. Back in 2015, the general advice was to ignore such claims as they were unenforceable, but VCS has been pursuing her ever since, so we are now preparing an appeal  an appeal.

[anniebattlemum]

Yes it is a N1 claim form pack and at the moment, I am unable to upload it in pdf format so it is not being accepted by your site.

 

I confirm it dates back to 2015 which makes it very difficult to provide any evidence to support an appeal.

 

Would you advise writing to VCS to request a copy of the contract with the landowner that was in existence in 2015?

 

The parking arrangements at the Berkeley Centre changed in 2018, so the signage will have changed and possibly the terms of the contract with the landowner. 

[anniebattlemum]

•  

•  #1

Name of the Claimant ?  Vehicle Control Services  

Date of issue –  25 June 2019

 

What is the claim for – 

 

1.The Claim is for a breach of contract for breaching the terms and conditions set on private land.

 

2.The Defendant's vehicle (reg number) was identified in the Berkeley Centre on the 12/08/2015

in breach of the advertised terms and conditions; namely parked for longer than maximum period permitted.

 

3.At all material times the Defendant was the registered keeper and/or driver.

 

4.The terms and conditions upon entering private land were clearly displayed at the entrance and in prominent locations.

The sign was the offer , and the act of entering private land was the acceptance of the offer hereby entering into a contract by conduct.

The signs specifically detail the terms and conditions and the consequences of failure to comply,

namely a parking charge notice will be issued, and the Defendant has failed to settle the outstanding liability.

 

5.The Claimant seeks the recovery of the parking charge notice, contractual costs and interest.

 

What is the value of the claim?  £185 in total (£160 + £25 court fee - no charge for legal representative's costs)

 

Has the claim been issued by the Private parking Company or was the PCN assigned and it is the Debt purchaser VCS

 

 

[anniebattlemum]

 

My daughter does still have the previous correspondence sent to various addresses.

She did not respond as the general advice was that this would confirm her personal data and potentially liability.

 

The documents sent include a photograph of her vehicle showing number plate and there was a grainy photo of the driver, which was totally unclear.

 

She overstayed by 17 minutes, entering at 6.56p.m. (still rush hour time) and leaving at 9.13p.m. (also a busy time for social traffic on this very busy road) so that exit time could have been prolonged. Tesco Express is one of the shops she used in the Centre and I understand they are usually lenient with first time offenders. 

 

My initial question was whether the courts acknowledge the right to charge for overstaying in cases that predate the Beavis case Supreme Court ruling of November 2015.

 

Also it would be helpful to know what rights the 2015 contract with the landowner gave VCS to charge for overstaying.

 

Any advice re how to proceed with the preparation of the POPLA appeal would be gratefully received.

She advised 2 days ago that she intends to appeal the entire claim, so I understand only 12 days remain.

[anniebattlemum]

Money Claim registration was easy,

when I try to respond to the claim with the claim number and password,

which I have done repeatedly over several hours,

I'm told that the claim number or password is incorrect.

 

Has anyone ever come across this problem?

I can't believe there would be a mistake on the N1 form!

 

[anniebattlemum]

Not yet.

I've wasted hours trying to sort out the problem with the moneyclaim website & trying to find their contact details to get it resolved!

 

Will get the CPR off tomorrow & mail first class Monday.

No solicitor mentioned so will go straight to VCS.

 

Thank you so much for keeping me right and keeping on top of it.

Much appreciated. 

[anniebattlemum]

OK CPR letter ready to go.

Is there a case number that would be assigned if I could get into the MCOL website?

 

For the heading, I have just used the claim number on top of the N1.

Is that acceptable? I

 

will now scan the previous documents she has and try to get them into pdf format.

 

I'm afraid the AOS was sent off by my daughter by mail a few days ago.

Does that restrict our timeline for submitting the defence?

[anniebattlemum]

Thank you FTMDave for your encouragement. I know these people try to operate by fear and scare people into paying up - fair enough if it was a small reasonable sum, but this is an outrageous amount for a small, first time non compliance. This is why I am ready to fight it. 

 

Would it be a good idea to send the CPR letter by recorded delivery/signed for, so that they can't argue they never received it?

[anniebattlemum]

Wow thanks!

[anniebattlemum]

Letters sent both ways as Ethel suggested.

 

Still having problems uploading previous letters as attachments too big, probably because they're not the original word documents but photos of them.

 

Working on that, but they are:

 

1) Demand for £60 within 14 days of 12/8/15 with grainy photos of car showing reg. number

2) Demand for £100 as too late to appeal

 

3)Demand for £130 from debt collectors £30 is for their admin) dated 19/11/15

 

4) Reminder for £130 from debt collectors dated 3/12/15

 

5) Demand for £154 from lawyers (they've added legal costs) dated 5/5/16 (they say there was a letter dated 1/3/16 but don't have this)

 

6) Demand for £231.33 from VCS dated 24/4/19 (includes debt collection fee of £60) but the PCN says they want to recover £160

 

Do we have only 14 days to submit the defence from the day the AOS was filed?

 

Will go to Sheffield tomorrow, get originals and try again.

 

Is it worth going through the archives at Sheffield Council Planning Department, to ensure permission was obtained for the sign?

 

Will it tell me anything about what was on the sign or just the dimensions and location? 

[anniebattlemum]

Yes I have the original PCN and will send as soon as I have removed all personal references. It has two grainy photos on it, so that the registration is just about visible, but the driver definitely is not. 

[anniebattlemum]

The PCN says the date of the contravention was 12/08/2015 and the issue date of the notice it says was 25/08/2015, so 13 days later apparently. I don't know when she received it, but looks like they say they met the 14 days with the PCN issue date. Do you still need to see it or the other revised documents with the barcodes removed?

 

Yes the AOS was done online. My daughter was then convinced she'd done it too early and she only had 14 days to submit her defence from the date she did the AOS, but I understand it's still 28 days from the date of the claim.

 

The CPR went off on 6th July.

 

I understood that the registered keeper can now be held liable, whether driver or not?

[anniebattlemum]

Thank you so much for your support. It really helps to ease the stress when someone's 'rooting' for you! Here's the PCN.

 

PCN revised.pdf

 

I hope we've dealt with everything in these revised attachments!

 

Final version of claim.pdf

[anniebattlemum]

Right. I was just reading about the Protection of Freedoms Act in that regard. The driver is certainly not identifiable in the pictures taken and she hasn't identified herself as the driver, but presumably they have her keeper details from the DVLA. There was no separate NTK. This is all we have. 

[anniebattlemum]

Haha love it!

That's great - I thought there might be a loophole there somewhere that we could use in our defence. I guess I need to study the 'POFA' for more facts. 

 

I have not been able to establish who the landowner is, only the estate agent who is managing the site, I imagine each retailer leases their bit of the site from the landowner.

 

I wanted to see from the contract whether the landowner has given VCS the right to charge for overstaying, but I'm sure they won't send me a copy of the contract that was in being in 2015.

 

The main retailer is Tescos - they occupy most of the site - and, as they have a policy of 2 warnings, 3 strikes and only then take action - I wondered whether it was worth approaching them for support. I doubt they would want to risk losing customers due to unreasonable parking demands and any resulting bad publicity.

 

Would the correct procedure have been to request the name of the driver from the keeper? As it is, would I be right in thinking that there can be no contract if the driver has not been identified?

[anniebattlemum]

So it doesn't matter they didn't issue a NTK? We can't use FOPA Section 4 for the defence then?

[anniebattlemum]

Bank goes that slam dunk defence! OK thanks. Back to the drawing board.

[anniebattlemum]

That would have been true in May 2015 - Spring Bank Holiday - but it happened in August 2015.

12th August was a Wednesday, 25th a Tuesday. Pity - excellent argument.

 

I don't see any specific reference to POFA anywhere?

The grace time is really relevant.

It's a very busy car park (maybe 50-60 cars) so my daughter has often had to drive around until someone vacates a spot.

There can also be congestion for actually getting into the parking spot when you find one.

 

Exiting is equally difficult, as it's an extremely busy road at all times, in a highly built-up area, with a pedestrian crossing with traffic lights right beside the entrance, causing further delays to the flow of traffic. Turning right onto Eccleshal Road could therefore involve a queue at the carpark exit. The Tesco (most important retailer onsite)  is well stocked and very popular, so the car park is always well occupied. 

 

My daughter didn't have children at the time of the non-compliance, otherwise the baby seat would have been a good argument.

I am still reviewing the IPC code of conduct to see whether there are any points to pick up on.

 

I have tried twice to call the Sheffield Planning Office but have been unable to get through, to ask about permission for signs and cameras. I will get onto that again on Monday. They close at 4p.m. Mondays to Fridays. I have no evidence re the signage at the Berkeley Centre in 2015 and it all changed last November.

 

I thought I saw a confusing reference to Exel rather than VCS on one of the letters but haven't been able to find it again. It would be very good if there was some history on the signage available somewhere.

[anniebattlemum]

There has been no identification of the driver.

 

Do you mean they can only bring a claim against either the driver or the keeper - is there a regulation on this?

Could you explain further the £54 reference? Thx.

 

I have now been through every online planning application for this location from 1981 to date and have examined the application content wherever it appeared not to refer to a specific unit.

 

All I can find are applications for modifications to the numbered retail units,

a pending one requesting a change to the current sign showing a list of retail outlets,

and I can find no reference to VCS or Excel.

 

Am I missing anything?

 

If there is no planning permission, then surely the signs are not legal and there can be no contract?

 

I don't think there's any other search criteria other than the address, but correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[anniebattlemum]

Unfortunately I'm having real problems with that.

 

Apparently the Berkeley Centre was there in the 1960's, and earlier,

the site consisted of allotments in the 40's and 50's and seems to have been next to a 'snuff mill'.

I can find no information about the original construction and council planning for a retail centre. 

 

In 2010 Excel Parking were in the process of installing recognition cameras at the Berkeley Centre but I found no planning application for permission.

 

In 2012, I see that Excel were banned for 3 months from using the DVLA database, so at some point, they must have switched ownership from Excel to VCS - I realise Excel is the parent company.

[anniebattlemum]

I see yes, so the defence should not mention anything that confirms the driver was actually there. 

 

Can anyone please direct me to the standard brief defence that is recommended?

 

I have been searching through the forum and have seen lots of instructions about the procedure but not the content of the standard defence.

 

Thanks.

 

[anniebattlemum]

Actually I never hit quote and I keep trying to avoid it but it just keeps coming up automatically.

[anniebattlemum]

I have read various brief defences and think it's time to prepare something and run it by you.

 

Am I right in thinking that:

a) It should not be submitted in advance as then the claimant will see it and have the benefit of adjusting his claim

 

b) It should be sent by email direct to the County Court Business Centre as close as possible to the final day - is that because of security, reliability of delivery or some other reason?

 

At what point does the Witness Statement come into play?

I have read "at the time of disclosure" - is that in court?

 

After the brief defence you recommend, suggesting there is no contract and therefore no breach has occurred,

does anything further happen before the actual appearance in court?

 

I have taken further steps to get land owner information from the Land Registry office,

but I'm not sure what I can do with that information,

 

unless I write to them and ask them to confirm they have given VCS the right to make charges.

 

Would that be a waste of time?

 

Thanks once again for all your helpful guidance.

[anniebattlemum]

In response to your question, I have a copy of the title deeds showing ownership and also the leases.

No idea what to do with that info though!

 

I should be most grateful if you would review the attached brief draft defence on page 1.

The page 2 thoughts are a work in progress.

 

The POFA point is weak in my opinion, but having read a lot of analysis of the requirements, I haven't managed to come up with anything beefy.

 

I should be grateful for any ideas on that, as it seems like a failure to follow procedure would be a strong defence.

 

Also it asks for the driver's details on the PCN and then the claim states the Defendant was the registered keeper and/or driver, but I don't really understand whether there's a point of defence there. 

 

DRAFT DEFENCE

 

1)      The claimant has failed to prove that VCS had a contract with the landowner (The West London Property Corporation Ltd.) in August 2015, and therefore failed to show either a legitimate interest in controlling parking at the Berkeley Precinct, or the authorisation to make charges on their own behalf, for any overstay in the carpark, including for first-time offenders (relevant to Tesco lease). (no response to CPR 31.14 request delivered and signed for at 10.32a.m. on 9th July)

 

2)      The claimant has failed to prove that VCS obtained a planning permit from the Sheffield Planning Department under the Town and Country Planning Act 2007 (also requested in my CPR 31.14 letter) and that there were prominent signs in existence at that time, showing clearly the terms and conditions for parking and the charge payable for any breach. Therefore, the three elements of offer, acceptance and consideration required for a contract were not met, and no contract existed.

 

3)      The claimant failed to issue the PCN in the timescale required under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 for keeper liability and, allowing for the 2 day delivery time afforded to Royal Mail, it arrived a day later than the 14 day deadline. The parking company has not met the keeper liability requirements and therefore keeper liability does not apply. The parking company can therefore only pursue the driver. As the keeper of the vehicle, I decline, as is my right, to provide the name of the driver(s) at the time. As the parking company have neither named the driver(s) nor provided any evidence as to who the driver(s) were, I submit I am not liable to any charge.

 

 

 

[anniebattlemum]

Thanks for that.

I will delete that reference.

 

It looks as though I could still do with a more robust POFA defence in terms of keeper liability, so I will revisit Section 4 asap.

 

Any further ideas on that would be greatly appreciated.

 

Sorry the quote line came up again!!