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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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Moneybarn charges and default notice


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I'm hoping you can give me some I don't know where to turn

 

I bought a car 3 years ago and it's a 4 year agreement.

paid over half the value.

 

In Jan 2017 I lost my job and home

moneybarn took me to court to claim the car.

 

The judge set aside the order on the proviso that I paid and extra on top to cover costs and fees.

I have been paying every month

 

in May a payment was missed and returned to my bank due to a systems error on their part it would seem.

 

I was not aware of this and carried on paying junes as normal

Today a guy appeared at my property to take the vehicle.

I had no notice or contact from moneybarn and no reason to question things as I had an online payment confirmation

 

I contacted them to ask what on earth was going on.

They said as Mays was missing plus julys was due and costs on top, they were now taking the car

 

I've always paid on the 27th of each month and this has been agreed and accepted for years Suddenly they're putting me two months in arrears saying payment is actually due on the 16th

The car is my work vehicle and I keep away from home.

 

They've said if I can pay the £1490 they will hold off action and carry on as normal!

I only have a year left and an luckily in a comfortable financial position.

 

Had I known Mays payment hadn't been received I would've paid again

But no communication whatsoever

 

I'm really panicking now as I can't access the £1490 until next Friday and they're saying they will come to get the car before then

What should I do

 

Can I take it back to court to have more time

 

Do I stand any where with regards to the total lack of communication

Really could do with some help

 

Thanks so much

Edited by dx100uk
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well they cant

There's no return of goods order - it was set aside?

 

The car is protected goods [under the CCA] as you've paid more than a third.

and the repo guy has zero legal powers anyway

 

typical moneybarn..they rarely have a clue what they are doing.

 

have you all the statements from day one.

if not sar them.

 

you'll have £100's added in unlawful fees esp things like £350 repo fees [which they cant charge]

they cant charge the court costs either..they lost.

 

moved to moneybarn forum and retitled

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Normally ROGOs are suspended not set a side.... (meaning it will be enforced if you miss another payment later on).

 

Have a look at a Time Order.

 

https://www.nationaldebtline.org/EW/factsheets/PDFs/06C%20EW%20Time%20order%20-%20hire%20purchase%20or%20conditional%20sale.pdf

 

 

Andy

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Sorry it was suspended ...

 

there are lots of charges on the account including late payment fees and £300 recovery fees.

 

If I lodge the time order on Monday then will it hold any further action?

 

What am I asking the court to do?

Allow me until Friday to make the payment I'm demanding ?

Or asking to be able to make smaller payments?

 

Can moneybarn just send someone out to take the car without letting me know?

 

Should they have acted reasonably and notified me of the missing payment?

 

Do I raise this point of having an agreement to make the payment on the 27th of every month and then demanding July earlier than this?

 

I've not submitted a SAR

- how do I do this i have no idea if I have PPi on this either?

 

Sorry for all the questions ! I'm lost and confused lol !thanks again :)

Edited by dx100uk
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I would ring them and explain that the missed payment was due to a banking error and ask they apply a little common sense...otherwise you will have no other option but make application for a Time Order.

 

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?382658-Time-Orders

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHER

 

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Click sar

Scan up all your paperwork please

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Thanks again.

 

I tried the common sense approach but it fell on deaf ears.

They were not interested and also shifted the goal posts on my payment date!

 

I have it in writing that I could move my payment date to the27th of each month and this is the date I have always paid this on, without any issue from moneybarn.

 

All of a sudden the guy was demanding I pay £1490..

. may payment,

then Julys

- this totals £860,

plus £300 recovery fee ( for a car that wasn't recovered)

I have no idea what the other £330 is for.

had nothing in writing,

no statement of account ..zilch!

 

Haven't had a statement for months so couldn't tell you how much was outstanding.

 

Just cannot understand why they won't accept the £430 now then the next £430 on Friday as usual.

I would clear the recovery fee too if it meant they would go away !

 

With the time order - what am I asking for?

More time to pay?

Them to reconsider whether this and the fees are lawful?

I'm very confused!

 

DX What documents do I need to scan?

What will the SAR do?

 

Thanks so much again for all your amazing help!

Edited by dx100uk
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read the time order link andy gave

click the sar link...you need all the paperwork.

 

please scan up the paperwork you currently have read upload

give us the info we need to help you...

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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dottymcdotty use the online portal to make payment.

 

https://my.moneybarn.com/?_ga=2.249480199.1846310706.1532279702-1973123973.1532279702

 

forget the £300 recovery fee

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHER

 

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group - The National Consumer Service

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They've haven't sent any paperwork. I didn't even see the guy as I wasn't home when he turned up.

If I make payment they've said they'll still continue with enforcement unless it's the full £1490. Still have no clue what this mystery £330 is for!

 

The last correspondence I had was the suspended order from the court. I can try and scan that.

Am I asking the court to give me more time to pay?

They've said if I don't surrender the vehicle they will report it as stolen. Feel like they want to car irrespective.

Do I upload everything on here or send it to you privately? Literally got until the morning to take action!

 

Thanks so much again guys

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DX they could take weeks to send me all that info couldn't they?

Won't they just take the car in the meantime then charge me a load more money plus fees to get it back?

 

They said on the phone if I wanted until Friday to clear the £1490 they'd have to take the car now until payment was made.

 

I asked how much and how I'd get it back...

the guy in the phone said we'd have to discuss that once payment was made!

Surely they should be transparent and up front about costs?

 

The recovery guy was from Sheffield !!!

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just pay them as andy suggests

have you read any other moneybarn threads here?

you'll see its a common threat

 

just pay what you can when you can

and now stay off that phone!

the repo guy has no legal powers they are not court bailiffs

and even WITH A COPY OF THE COURT ORDER

CANNOT TAKE THE VEHICLE

keep it on private land behind locked gates or in a garage

 

why monday morning?

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

Link to post
Share on other sites

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

Link to post
Share on other sites

ALSO just checked the recovery agents they use!

It says no success no fee!

 

as they didn't take the vehicle ,

I'm assuming moneybarn won't be charged!

 

why are moneybarn then insisting I pay this fee???

It all seems so odd and corrupt !

 

Yes I've read closely all the threads.

There was one where moneybarn did report the vehicle stolen and the police did take the car.

I'm very anxious !

 

I also need the car to do my job and can't keep it hidden for a year until the car is paid off.

 

They've given me until Monday morning to pay £1490 otherwise they will send the recovery guy again and report it as stolen.

 

Thanks so much - I know how busy you all are :)

 

Feeling very sick and stressed !

 

Totally out of the blue!

And I've been paying - this was a total banking error !

Edited by dx100uk
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you are learning this how moneybarn operate

they haven't a clue

and have been reprimanded several times by various regulators

 

now if you'd not spoken on the phone, which should never ever do, you'd not know and wouldn't be worried..scan that judgement up please read upload

 

pers I would worry they probably said 'may' anyhow not will

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Share on other sites

not par chance in Scotland are you just looking at your username.

and have you moved since taking this car on?

 

go read this thread carefully....

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?425737-Police-seized-my-car-moneybarn-reported-it-stolen-Scotland

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Share on other sites

Thanks DX- no not in Scotland and yes I've moved but kept them informed of my address and the court order was issued after we moved.

 

That was part of the reason I missed the payments as I lost my job then the landlady served notice to have her house back ( we didn't miss any rent!) so had to move etc and money was incredibly tight.

 

Sorry I'm still unsure what to do tomorrow.

I'm going to bring the car back nearer home and keep it somewhere secure.

 

How long do I need to keep it secure for?

 

do I need to do the time application in the courts still?

Should I just make a payment and say nothing,

hoping they just don't come back or report it as stolen?

 

Thanks so much again!

Trying to find the court info!

 

Just read that thread!

Now I'm even more concerned.

Sounds like they will think nothing of contacting the police and then pushing for prosecution for theft!

 

Think i'll be up all night trying to figure out what to do!

 

Still don't know where their costs are coming from ..

I've not had any requests to surrender the vehicle either.

 

I'l try and avoid the phone,

but they have also passed my mobile number to the revocery agent and he was continuously phoning and texting me throughout the day too!

 

Worst part of this that payments have been made and it must've been a banking error on their part!

 

Why didn't they tell me they day/next day the payment didn't hit their account!???

Edited by dx100uk
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the poster in that thread won, they should not have used the police!!

 

just pay them

ignore unknown calls on your mobile

 

only a COURT APPOINTED BAILIFF

with a copy of the ROGO can take your car

 

a repo guy IS NOT A BAILIFF!!

 

get that sar off tomorrow

or now even

send it by email!!

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Thinking about the Time Order I would hold off on that...your only a month in arrears and thats their error.. not yours.....make the payment/s on line and get it up to date...then make July when its due.

 

Ring the Court that issued the ROGO and Suspended it and explain what these numpties are doing and falsifying extra recovery fees.....you may need to submit an N245 to suspend this order again but the court will confirm.

 

Its a grey area when a Suspended Return of Goods Order is defaulted...there is no direct guidance...they dont need to go back to court to re enforce it or in form the court you defaulted...they just collect.

 

 

Andy

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHER

 

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Did she get the car back then?

Ok I will do...

The recovery agents mobile was not an unknown call, which is what threw me. It was a number I didn't recognise and having 2 children and a disabled brother I answered incase it was an emergency :(

 

How long do I have to keep the car secure for though?

I need to use if to do my job and often park on streets/in public car parks!

 

Is there nothing I can do through the courts to keep them from taking the car?

 

Could I pay all the arrears off and they could still send a recovery agent out and take my car whilst I'm at work with no notice? Feel so vulnerable!

 

Will send the SARS off now ..

I also can't find the court info!

Will I be able to obtain that from the courts too?

 

I didn't get a copy of their court application either!

 

Thanks so much again

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See my last post on the previous page......posts crossed

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHER

 

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Thanks Andy - they are saying I am2 months in arrears as Julys was due on the 16th!

 

Even though I have it in writing that I was ok to make it on the 27th of every month and that is the day I have been paying it on, without issue before! they've put these fees on plus another £330 that I have no idea what it is for!!

 

 

Thanks again

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If you go the pay link i provided earlier..according to that page you can change the pay date yourself ?

 

As stated ring the court first thing tomorrow and explain the claimant is being unreasonable and should you submit a further N245 to suspend

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Thanks again Andy...

just to clarify - I'm asking the courts to whether I should request to suspend an order that was previously suspended based on the grounds of unreasonable behaviour from the creditor?

 

Will they consider suspending a second time?

Do you know how long it normally takes to get a hearing?

 

I've just written out the SARS ...I' sure they wont have it back in any kind of hurry!

 

what should I do with the car though?

Keep it somewhere secure?

Keep it off the road until the agreement is paid?

( This isn;t really an option as I need it for my job!).

 

Thanks again

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I've just submitted the SAR.

 

Brought the car home and put it in a locked garage

- Do I have to inform moneybarn that it's in a secure locked place at home?

 

Trying to get hold of someone at the court!

 

I'll make payment online as stated then the rest Friday.

If I don't pay the recovery fee will they still come after it and report the car as stolen?

Thanks again

Edited by dx100uk
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