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    • I understand what you mean. But consider that part of the problem, and the frustration of those trying to help, is the way that questions are asked without context and without straight facts. A lot of effort was wasted discussing as a consumer issue before it was mentioned that the property was BTL. I don't think we have your history with this property. Were you the freehold owner prior to this split? Did you buy the leasehold of one half? From a family member? How was that funded (earlier loan?). How long ago was it split? Have either of the leasehold halves changed hands since? I'm wondering if the split and the leashold/freehold arrangements were set up in a way that was OK when everyone was everyone was connected. But a way that makes the leasehold virtually unsaleable to an unrelated party.
    • quite honestly id email shiply CEO with that crime ref number and state you will be taking this to court, for the full sum of your losses, if it is not resolved ASAP. should that be necessary then i WILL be naming Shiply as the defendant. this can be avoided should the information upon whom the courier was and their current new company contact details, as the present is simply LONDON VIRTUAL OFFICES  is a company registered there and there's a bunch of other invisible companies so clearly just a mail address   
    • If it doesn’t sell easily : what they can get at an auction becomes fair market price, which may not realise what you are hoping.
    • Thank you. The receiver issue is a rabbit hole I don't think I'm going to enjoy going down. These people seem so protected. And I don't understand how or why?  Fair market value seems to be ever shifting and contentious.
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    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
      • 1 reply
    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
      • 161 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Family debt...now court claim received.


anney63
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So sorry to hear about your wife's death. In the awful circumstances of your wife being killed I can see how researching the law on this was not your first priority.

 

But it might be helpful to note that even if this debt does exist you personally are not legally liable for repaying it and cannot be sued in the county court. Nobody is responsible for or obliged to pay their spouse's debts. (Unless you had formally guaranteed the debt, which is not the case here.)

 

As for the payments you have already paid, if your b-i-l claimed this showed you accepted liability for the debt you'd have a strong defence. You would say, correctly, that you made the payments in error because you thought you were legally liable, and stopped paying when you discovered that you weren't. And I believe you could then recover payments made in error, but that needs researching a bit more.

 

The legal liability to repay this (if it is a loan that is legally repayable - that's yet to be established) falls on your late wife's Estate. Did she leave a Will? If so it's the responsibility of the Executors to satisfy themselves that the debt is actually due, and if it is to pay it.

Who are the Executors? That may be you too, but suing you as Executor isn't so straightforward. Is there sufficient money in your late wife's Estate to pay this debt if it is actually repayable?

 

It's not at all clear that this is a loan that could be recovered in court anyway. The court would have to decide whether it was a loan or a gift between brother and sister. Your b-i-l would have to prove to the court that the alleged loan was made. The court will not automatically accept it exists merely because he says so.

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  • 1 month later...

anney63, please can give more information about your late wife's Will.

Did she leave one? If so who are the executors? 

They are responsible for paying any debts of your late wife.

 

Also can you post up on here a copy of the claim form you have received (with all identifying information, claim numbers, bar codes etc removed).

 

I've been away and only just logged back into CAG to read the thread.

I see you has until yesterday to respond.

 

What defence did you send (identifying details removed again)?

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  • 5 months later...

anney63 I am sorry to hear what has happened. It all sounds rather odd from  legal point of view. As advised earlier you are not responsible for your late wife's debts unless you have personally guaranteed them. It sounds as if the court decided that you had guaranteed the debt yourself and created some form of contract between yourself and your BiL to repay the debt.

 

It would help us understand what has happened if you can post up on here the original claim (with all personal identifying information removed).

 

I also don't understand why the debt wasn't paid from your late wife's Estate. I asked about this in post 10 above. Can you give the information asked for in that post please. (Again don't identify names)

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I realise how difficult this is for you but without more details and seeing the actual claim it's almost impossible to advise what you might be able to do next. 

 

Your wife left no Will so who administered her Estate? Who was granted Letters of Administration by the Probate Office? Was there enough money in the Estate to pay the alleged loan from her brother? Why wasn't it paid rom the Estate?

 

If you post the claim made by your BiL on here (identifying details removed) it will help us understand the legal argument your BiL was making.

Edited by Ethel Street
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It's OK in that it doesn't matter who pays it, if the debt the court ordered you to pay is paid by someone then it is settled and that is the end of the matter. There's no further appeals you can make and no way (AFAIK) of re-opening it if your partner has paid it on your behalf.

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