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Three PCNs in two Weeks


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Hello Friends,

 

I am a Leeds city resident and I got three parking tickets in a span of two weeks.

 

There are multiple issues with these PCNs as I spotted some discrepancies in councils guidance on the time limits.

 

Few years back Leeds city council has introduced a mobile based parking solution by partnering with a company called parkmobile.

 

Being a daily commuter I really love the convenience of the app though it charges 25P convenience fee for each transaction.

The way the app works is as below:

 

Step 1: Drive to the intented parking space and open the app.

Step2: App presents the user a map with the exact location of your car by using mobile’s gps location.

The map also shows the parking machine Ids on the map corresponding to the street.

The same ID is also displayed on the parking machine with big, bright and bold letters so that any one can see it from far distance as well.

 

Step 3: User selects the parking machine ID and click on pay now button

Step 4: App asks user to re confirm the Vehicle registration

Step 5: Counter starts

 

The beauty of the app is that it also incorporates any timing restrictions that may have been imposed on that street parking machine (for eg : Maximum Parking Duration 2 hours), Price list for each of the hours (for eg 0-2 hrs – 2£).

 

My case:

Now coming to my case, I drive a fully electric car and Leeds City council incentivise all EV drivers with a free parking permit(to be displayed on windscreen) which enable EV drivers to park for free on any of the city’s street parking spaces.

 

As I am so used to the parking app since its launch I always use it to check the parking restrictions and payments etc.

 

On this occasion I parked on a street named as ‘Edward Street’ which has 2 hour maximum parking rule according to council and as per the front facia of the parking machine.

 

But to the contrary on parkmobile app it was tagged as full day parking.

Following the guidance from the parkmobile app I simply parked on the street

came back in the evening only to find a PCN attached to Windscreen.

 

Later in the week I started parking in a different street and it has also got similar issue and ended up getting another PCN.

. Finally I ended up in getting 3 PCNs

 

I was so desperate to speak to the Enforcement officer.

Luckily I got hold of one of the officers sooner than later and explained the situation.

 

Officer heard the whole story and agrees that there is a problem and council has to correct it. Officer also advised me to park in another street near by where the parkmobile info marry up with the front facia info.

Since then I stopped getting tickets.

 

Current situation:

Current situation is that I appealed all the PCNs and council politely rejected and sent a NTO letter on my wife’s name as my wife is Registered Keeper of the car.

 

Way forward:

I am thinking to take a video of the whole situation, parking app usage video and put similar explanation as above in my respresentation to council.

 

Questions I do have now:

 

1) The NTO letter is on my wife’s name, As me being the driver at the time PCN issuance can I do the representation?

 

2) How strong is my case and what are the chances of cancelling the PCN by council after my representation?

 

3) PCN states a contravention code as

06 – Parked with out clearly Displaying a valid pay and display ticket or voucher”.

 

I think rather it should state

07-Parked with payment made to extend the stay beyond initial time” as I am displaying the council permit on windscreen all the time.

Does this discrepancy invalidates the PCN?

 

4) Does council accepts the video as evidences in representation?

 

5) Any other suggestions please ?

Edited by dx100uk
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Your wife will need to appeal as she is the debtor. However what this means in practice is that you can write the appeal, just make sure she signs it off as having come from her, and they will accept it.

 

I don't fully understand the details of the case. Your app said that the locations were all-day parking, but they weren't? Did you have your permit on display? Is it valid for use in those locations? The fact that you were issued a code 03 suggests that it wasn't valid, or that the CEO did not see a valid permit. Could you explain further.

 

The council will accept video evidence, but I don't think video is the best way to argue your case. It wouldn't seem to be of any use - just the facts are needed.

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Hi Jamberson,

 

Yes the app said that it is a full day parking but the front facia of the on-street parking machine says 2 hr max .

Yes my permit is always attached to front windscreen and it is valid till March, 2020. Also all the photographic evidences captured by CEO shows my permit as well.

CEO thinks that I over parked more than 2 hrs as his argument is based on front facia of the on-street parking machine. My point is that on the app same street is shown as full day parking. I tried to explain this in the below video. Please check and let me know if you understood the problem.

 

https://tinyurl.com/y87ujhoq

Edited by yek
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I get it - good video.

 

I think the contravention code is right, as you did not purchase your 'ticket' from the right tariff. Therefore you effectively didn't purchase anything to allow you to park there.

 

I think you will win this one - I would strongly recommend you write a letter as well. I would focus mainly on the app, not what it says on the machines. Using the app correctly, you were offered a range of parking options, with prices quoted. You selected one of them, and paid for it, so you have done nothing wrong. If the on-street restrictions are different then it's the Council's error for offering you all-day parking, and not something you were reasonably responsible for.

 

Feel free to post your letter on here before you send it, and I will tell you what I think.

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Just to make it clear. I have not paid for parking in this instance as the car is EV. I used the app only to check the restrictions. I shall draft the letter and post it soon.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi Jamberson, here you go with the attached letter. I feel like this letter is enough to expose the hole in the system. Kindly go through it and suggest for any changes if you thing necessary.

Representation.doc

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It's good. I would change it a little for clarity (and also drop the "forthwith" stuff. It doesn't go down well with the staff reading it.)

 

What became of your other two PCNs? If you are appealing all three with this letter, make sure you list them all at the top, and make the wording read "PCNs" not "PCN".

 

This is my re-draft - feel free to ignore, if you don't like it!

 

==========

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

Please accept this letter as a formal representation against PCN as detailed above.

 

My appeal is based on the grounds that there has been a “Procedural impropriety on behalf of the Leeds City Council”, as I was provided with faulty advice through the Parkmobile app, which the Council recommends.

 

The PCN is issued on the basis that I parked for longer than the permitted two hours on Edward Street. However, Parkmobile clearly says that I can park up to 10 hours on the Parking zone 24303, which includes Edward Street.

 

Below are the images from the parkmobile app captured by myself while I was standing on the Edward Street junction. It advises the tariff for that zone, as seen in the below image and offers an option of up to 10 hours parking. It does not state that I am restricted to two hours, and so I proceeded to park in good faith.

 

[image]

 

Please see below the image of the parking machine captured by the Civil Enforcement Officer, which clearly shows it to be inside Parking Zone 24303.

 

[image]

 

After getting two more PCNs with in a short span of time for the same reason, I got to the bottom of this, and worked out the issue, as outlined above. I also managed to speak with few of the Civil Enforcement Officers who patrol in the area and they do recognise the fact that there is a mis-match in the information between on-street parking machine and the parkmobile app.

 

In conclusion it is hopefully clear that I did not attempt to violate the parking conditions; I was simply mis-advised through the channels the Council itself provides. I would therefore request that the PCN be cancelled on this occasion.

Edited by Jamberson
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  • 1 month later...

Dear Jamberson,

 

I finally got replies for all the three NTOs, how ever they accepted first one and issued a charge notice for rest of the two. What worries me here is if they accepted the first representation then I would expect same response for remaining two representations on the grounds that they accepted their mistake in the first place. On contrary they quoted that (look at the last paragraph in the attached response Charge Certificste.png for your reference. Kindly go through it and let me know the way forward.

 

Thank you very much in advance.

 

Your's Sincerely.

Yek.

CouncilResponse.pdf

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Did your appeal letter quote all three PCN numbers? Do you have a copy?

 

 

If so, you wait for an Order for Recovery on each of the two, and then submit a Witness Statement saying to made representations and did not receive a response.

 

 

You should end up with two new NTOs, which you can appeal again, same as before.

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