DCBL got 2300gdp out of me over a PCM/Gladstones backdoor 2X pcn ccj..help get money back!!

[DragonFly1967]

I think that this would have been an ideal candidate for a set aside hearing as your husband received nothing from the courts.

 

But, unfortunately, as this happened on the 22nd March and now Easter is happening, you're going to need a miracle to get a hearing on Tuesday or Wednesday of next week! You only get 14 days before the money is passed to the creditor (and in to DCBL's pockets) and I don't think that public & bank holidays are taken into account.

 

 

There may be a way that you can get an emergency stay (maybe even an emergency set aside (not sure)) but it will mean paying a fee (£255 for either I think but don't quote me on it) and your husband getting to the nearest County court first thing on Tuesday (usually 10am) and then preying that there's a Judge that's both available and willing to hear the application and/or sitting there until there is.

 

Bailiff advice will know more about the above, and I think (although I'm happy to be wrong on this) that that's the only way that you're going to be able to get your money back and take this back to the initial stage to see if Gladrags fancy a second crack at it.

[DragonFly1967]

Just one thing to clear up.

 

Your thread title says "Son", but your post refers to your Husband.

 

 

I'm not one to judge, but assuming that they aren't one and the same, who is it that we're actually talking about here?

[DragonFly1967]

Wait for Bailiff Advice to give their opinion first, but you could get started by downloading an N244 (link) so that you can have a good read through both it and the guidance notes.

 

Might as well get a head start.

 

As dx100uk says though, you'll need at least the claim details (claim No etc) from Northants Bulk before you can complete the form fully. I'd be on to them at the start of business on Tuesday and then off to the local CC to beg for a Judge to see me.

 

If BA agrees with me and this does get you to court on Tuesday, try to speak to one of the court ushers and not just someone on a reception desk. With no offence to them, it's unlikely that they'd be able to get you in to see a Judge.

[DragonFly1967]

As there's a Lease Company involved here, the DVLA probably has no idea of the address of the keeper. A lot of the time, the #VK as recorded at DVLA is the leasing company and not the lessee.

 

If that is the case here, I'm wondering if the Leasing Company have somehow received the court paperwork and stuffed it up (misfiled it) rather than sending it on to the lessee. According to the OP, no court paperwork has arrived at either the present or previous address and it must've gone somewhere!

 

This has all the hallmarks of a complete cockup. And if I'm correct, the timeline would have gone something like this...

 

PPC write to #VK (Lease company)

#VK forward ticket to Lessee but don't (for some reason) inform PPC of the Lessee's details.

2nd Ticket arrives to #VK

#VK forward ticket to Lessee but don't (for some reason) inform PPC of the Lessee's details.

Lessee ignores tickets, rightly or wrongly is by the by now.

Gladrags write to #VK, but #VK thinking that this has all been dealt with already, files the paperwork in the shredder.

A court claim is issued, again to the #VK and once again the #VK cocks it up and files in the shredder.

A default judgement is issued, somehow based on the well known principle of "think of a number, then double it" which takes the total to over the magic £600.

And finally Shirley Temple and Co get the job of going round to the "debtors" house to con them out of £2,300 that they probably didn't owe in the first place. Probably having 'traced' him by other means than the DVLA, but they're the easiest to blame.

 

 

Personally, assuming that the OP is telling us the whole story, and I have no reason to doubt that. I'd not put the above events beyond the realms of possibility (it certainly wouldn't be the first time) and I feel that this is a shoo-in for a set aside and the PPC having to write a rather large cheque and starting again if they want to chance it.

 

The Lease company might be on the hook here as well of course.

[DragonFly1967]

The original debt was now £773.93,

There was a compliance stage fee of £90,

An enforcement stage fee of £822.00 and

A stage sale payment of £630

Plus interest of £2.24

A total of £2318.17

 

Also, if someone can double check the figures that I've come up with.

 

Let's assume that they've gone down the usual route of £160 per ticket. Then added (as this is a single claim) £75 court/solicitor costs. That makes a total of £395. Even if they'd somehow managed to double charge on the court/sols costs, that still only makes £470.

 

So how the hell did someone come up with £773.93?

 

Then there are the EA fees.

 

Compliance stage. As this is a single claim. £75 + VAT = £90

It's not over £1k so. First Enforcement Stage fee. £190 + VAT = £228

If they've somehow managed to claim a Second Enforcement Stage fee (although I'm not quite sure how as there was only one "visit"). £495 + VAT = £594

 

£773.93+

£90.00+

£228.00+

£594.00 =

 

£1685.93

 

There was no "sale" fee as no goods were removed.

 

 

At best (worst) I make this...

 

£395.00+

£90.00+

£228.00 =

 

£713.00.

 

 

It sounds to me like someone at DCBL has tried it on and can't believe their luck that they've got away with it (so far at least).

[DragonFly1967]

Do you now have a copy of the claim form?

 

If you do, can you remove any personal details and upload it as a PDF please, including their Particulars of Claim

[DragonFly1967]

Ring them back and ask them to email it to you.

[DragonFly1967]

Let me just check... will we need anything else apart from an emailed copy of the claim form?

 

Just ask them for a copy of everything that they have on file. Just to be on the safe side.

[DragonFly1967]

And don't worry too much. I've been here 11 years now, and I've not seen a "watertight" PPC claim yet.

[DragonFly1967]

To deal with your last post first. Gladrags, and therefore PCM won't be "paid" until 14 clear days have elapsed from the date of enforcement. So give them that at least before approaching them about a letter saying that it's been settled.

 

 

However.

 

Those PoC's are typical of Gladrags and wouldn't really stand up to any kind of scrutiny or challenge.

 

For a start, while the likes of DR+ etc try to add on extra charges, these are not allowed under the POFA 2012 so are completely unenforceable in a court (as long as they're challenged. They tend to get away with it on default judgements (as you've seen)).

 

 

As your husband (and he must be able to say this 100% truthfully) had no notification from anyone that he was being taken to court or anything else from the court regarding it. He does have grounds to apply for a set aside on this basis alone.

 

The application will cost you £255, unless he qualifies for fee remission, but if granted you'll get the £2,300 back for sure and can ask for the £255 back as well due to Gladrags unreasonable behaviour. The latter is up to the judge on the day though and there are absolutely no guarantees that you'll get it back.

 

Also, if the application for a set aside fails (although I don't see why it should) you'll lose another £255 on top of the £2,300 that you've already parted with.

 

I'd say that you had a better than 95% chance of getting a set aside, your money back (the £2.3k at least) and the CCJ removed completely.

 

 

As we're dealing with a significant amount of money, I'd say that it was likely that PCM & Gladrags will want to try again to try and get the money (that they'll have had to give you back) from you again. But this time, you'll be ready for them with our help. And well defended claims are far more likely to beat these cowboys at their own game.

 

If they do try again and you win (more likely than not), then you go for recovery of everything that this has cost you (reasonable costs at least) including the £255 set aside fee if you've not already been awarded that at the set aside hearing.

[DragonFly1967]

now that would be fun for them to justify.

 

I'd love to be a fly on the wall when they have that meeting

 

One case, one fee (or round of fees), no exceptions.

 

 

Although, they're not the first (or only) EA's to play the "think of a number and hope no one notices" game

[DragonFly1967]

This case is a textbook example of what MOJ was consulting on, backdoor CCJ to old address

 

That is the part that really makes no sense here, and to be honest, it's troubling me slightly. I can't help feeling that part of this story is still missing.

 

Northampton CCBC seem to have both the new and old address on file, but no claim or court documents arrived at either address according to the OP.

 

 

That's why I said that it is important that the OP's hubby can 100% honestly say that no claim or court documents were received to either address. If they can't (they received them but ignored or destroyed them for example) then the set aside application is almost certainly doomed to failure and would be a waste of £255 and possibly more.

[DragonFly1967]

Even if the leasing company did receive claim/court documents all is not lost. The fact would remain that your husband did not receive them, although that would be harder to prove.

 

So whilst I feel that it is important, all is not lost if they did. Although you need to ask them specifically (presuming that they did) what they did with them. To get to the bottom of it (again, presuming that they did) it *might* take an SAR to get the full story from the leasing company.

 

 

One further question... I'm presuming that your hubby is leasing the vehicle directly, or is it a vehicle that a company is leasing that your hubby then drives as a company car?

[DragonFly1967]

Was there a name and address on either the Judgement or the POC? If so...

 

Was it addressed to your husband at the old address?

Was it addressed to your husband at the current address?

Was it addressed to your husband at his work? or

Was it addressed to the leasing company?

[DragonFly1967]

OK. Was just trying to make sure that the leasing company hadn't got them and then failed to pass them on.

 

So. Now you have all of the information that you need, it's time for you to decide whether or not you want to go for a set aside.

 

 

As said, the application fee is £255. I think that there's a good chance that a set aside would be granted as you did not receive any court documents (ignoring the original parking ticket is immaterial to that). If the set aside was granted, you will get back your £2,300 and you can ask for the £255 as well, but you probably won't get it. The Judge may prefer that the £255 is included in your costs should the PPC try to restart the case and take you to court again.

[DragonFly1967]

Are you sure we have a good chance to get a set aside?

I'm not asking for 100% guarantee but would like very good odds for us.

 

I think you have a better than 95% chance of getting a set aside. The PPC, Gladrags & DCBL won't like it of course, but the system must be fair to both sides and as your husband can honestly say that he received no...

 

Letter before action, no

claim, no

court directions, and no

chance to defend the claim.

 

Then it should (in my opinion) be set aside.

 

 

It is then up to the PPC to try again if they want to, once they've finished licking their wounds perhaps.

 

 

 

The only caveat is the other 5%. Nothing is certain and it really is up to the Judge that hears your set aside application to decide, and sometimes, just sometimes, they really can be a law unto themselves and may decide against you.

[DragonFly1967]

Download and fill in a N244 form

 

 

I'm not 100% sure on which court. Your local county court could certainly process it and I don't think (I may well be wrong) that Northampton actually deal with stuff like this and may forward it to your local court anyway.

 

Best to ring your local court and ask them as they'll know for sure.

[DragonFly1967]

You should have been left with a receipt, never mind being sent one.

 

But, this is DCBL and Gladrags we're dealing with here, so don't expect anything to get done properly. DCBL seem to think that because they're "TV Stars" they can do pretty much anything they please and get away with it. And Gladrags believe that normal rules do not apply to them.

 

Gladrags probably know about this thread, so don't expect them to make life easy for you I'm afraid. This is going to be a fight and you're going to have to throw the first punch.

[DragonFly1967]

Here you go. Redacted, combined & reduced file size.

DCBL1 R.pdf

[DragonFly1967]

The 10th Jan date is on the Judgement as displayed in Post #57