Me and My Various Benefit Claims and issues

[jasta11]

I'm still technically on the PWP - even though it's now been more than 6 months. They admit they haven't a clue what to do next so they're just leaving things the same. No big deal in my case as I was fortunate enough to get a really decent advisor who could see I needed no extra help so didn't try to push me onto useless courses.

 

My JS Agreement was increased from 3 jobs a week to a whopping 5 (got off lightly there, methinks) and the usual 'check UJ a few times every week' thrown in too. Only see my advisor once a month for a very brief chat so in all honesty I can't complain about anything. Just a shame I can't see this advisor on my normal signing days too.

 

The whole PWP seems very broad though; I've read of people being given a horrendous amount of extra stuff to do. As I've said before, if you can show them you're already well organised and anticipate their questions - and have the answers ready - it needn't be too bad. You need to convince them why you don't need to do this or that and hope the advisor is reasonable about it.

[jasta11]

I think you struck lucky as how they proceed varies from one to another

 

Yes, it's tricky to know exactly what attitude to take at that first PWP meeting - if you say 'Oh, the 2 year WP didn't help me at all' then they may want you to go on more courses which will help you. On the other hand, if you said 'Oh, the WP really helped me a lot' they might send you on more courses because they think it's working!

 

Tread carefully!

 

The advisor definitely is a big part of it; a fair one will treat you realistically, but if you get a 'jobsworth' - perhaps under pressure from the boss - then expect anything.

[jasta11]

Lucky - many go through them with a fine tooth comb, I have been warned there's a possibility of sanctions for not dating every row or writing stuff that was accepted downstairs

 

This is what annoys me constantly - every advisor should be singing off the same hymn sheet but we all know they aren't. What's perfectly acceptable to one is not what is acceptable to another.

 

This nit-picking by them is why I use Reed and CV-Library - not so much because they're any good but simply because every job you apply for is listed and dated and a print-out of the 'My Applications' section contains all the hard evidence the JC need. Make it a point to always click on a couple of vacancies every day - including weekends - from both sites and at the end of the fortnight you have at least 50 jobs applications to show them, all nicely detailed and dated.

 

It's the quantity they're after, not the quality - they usually just glance at them. If I'm in a bad mood I make them sign and date every sheet as being acceptable

 

I'm actually thinking of adding a line to every page of evidence I submit saying something like 'I hereby certify that the Jobseekers Agreement requirements have been met for this period *signed & dated by advisor*.'

[jasta11]

I have my next advisor meeting on Tuesday, no idea what for next. Then apparently i'll be assigned to a proper PWP advisor and still have to continue signing on. Hopefully it won't be every week....

 

The PWP advisors I've seen are far more easy going and pleasant than the regular 'signing on' clerks. I think in some respects all they're really doing is just checking on you and being seen to be doing something with you. If you come across as being organised and doing all you can to find work (or at least looking like you are) then the interviews are a formality.

 

I still see claimants turning up for their interviews with no jobsearch evidence and a surly manner - definitely not the way to go.

[jasta11]

Read the attached case law to have evidence and understand that by law you do not have to do the number of steps and each activity listed in your Jobseeker's Agreement.

 

A print out given to the JCP manager in case your adviser is troublesome will save you from a sanction for "not actively seeking employment".

 

I've been on PWPS for two months now and you need to know the law and their internal guidance / policy to save yourself from unfair sanctions.

 

This case law made my day. Save the file now in case you can not find this thread later.

 

CJSA/1814/2007

 

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]49809[/ATTACH]

 

That's an excellent document - I've added it to my collection. We all know how ambiguous the JC can be when 'inventing' JS Agreements and it's high time they were taken to task about it. Fortunately my own JSAg only contains about 3 activites anyway but I'll be quoting this letter if they ever try and increase it.

 

The wording of my own JSAg actually doesn't require me to apply for jobs if you interpret it at face value. It merely asks me to 'look' or 'check' or 'use'.

[jasta11]

I like charity shops, they seem to have 'upped' their image a lot these days - must have bought hundreds of shirts from them over the years and I love a browse through old books and annuals; got a brand new aviation hardback book a few weeks ago for £3; price inside the jacket was £25. Result!

 

Doing a bit of work in a charity shop got me nicely out of 3 months with the dreaded A4e. I took the placement simply to avoid going there every day and because the shop was 5 feet from my normal bus stop in town - very handy. As I hadn't done retail work before I had a hard job convincing the A4e advisor to put me on the placement - usually we're trying to talk them out of putting us on placements.

 

I didn't expect much but the people in the shop were great and it was a very happy and informal atmosphere - plus I scored for a lot of good stuff as the staff had first pick, which included brand new end-of-line clothes donated from the big stores (I never knew that stores did that). Just wish they'd been able to offer me a paid, permanent position; I'd have taken it like a shot. Made a nice change from the front-line admin jobs I've had in the past..I prefer a quieter life these days

[jasta11]

They sound a wonderful lot at your JC, Chester!

 

I'm well past the 6 month PWP mark now and they admit they haven't a clue what to do next so are just keeping it going - they call me in for a brief 1-to-1 every 6 weeks or so but they always seem happy with what I'm doing. I think I've been very lucky in getting decent advisers rather than 'stick 'em all on a course' types.

 

Pity that casually-dressed customer hadn't recorded the adviser being abusive - would have made one hell of a good complaint.

[jasta11]

I cant believe anyone says that!

 

Very true.. but if I thought it would stop the JC sending me on any more daft courses I would force myself to say it.. through gritted teeth.

[jasta11]

are the goverment paying these stores to be seen to give us a chance.

 

An excellent - and old - trick; dangle the carrot of a possible job and take people on for a few weeks 'training', fail them all at the end, then take on another group for the next few weeks. Free labour for as long as the company can keep it going. The DWP should stamp out companies who are obviously doing it repeatedly and have no intention of offering any real jobs.

 

That's exactly what's wrong with everything today - including the world in general; everything is about 'image'; doesn't matter if nothing actually happens at the end of the day as long as they're seen to be doing something. Work Trials are fine, where you're definitely given the job first but have the option to leave without penalty, but as for wanting people to do x weeks work before they even get an interview?? Not on.

 

'Interview' should always come before 'Work' (even in the dictionary it works this way )

[jasta11]

the first company was the new marks and spencers in braintree.

 

i had to go for group interview. i think they had 4 slots 2 in the morning and 2 in the afternoon and the one i was on had about 6 tables with people from the company and people from the agency who set this all up. there was at least 4 people sometimes 6 round a table and we had to work as a team to do these group exercises.

 

for example the one where your on an island and have to pick 5 items out of about 30.

 

the point is to show you can work in a team.

 

this one on monday is with toby cavery.

 

Disgraceful. You should have started a small fire in the litter bin and when they asked what you were doing said 'I'm trying to attract a passing ship and get off this damn island'

 

This type of 'interview' is insulting even to a school leaver looking for their first job - they would have ample team-working experience from being in the classroom. To inflict it on older people who already have work experience is even more embarrassing. These 'tests' prove absolutely nothing.

[jasta11]

Ingeus and the rest of the providers speak of 'individually tailored support'. I've yet to see it. Same tired old script for everyone.

[jasta11]

Interesting reading - and for the most part, totally unworkable I think. They want people to attend the jobcentre daily for 13 weeks while at the same time reducing the staff by 10%?? This is the same staff who can't cope with the workload now.

 

Lots more new guidance for us to download and catch them out with. Bring it on.

 

Good to see the PCS is still on our side. I note their comment about increased security in the JC..I have a feeling they're going to need it.

[jasta11]

also at the jobcenter they are training floor walkers to sign people on now lol

 

Just like Wetherspoons - when they're really busy they send a girl around with an hand-held ordering device and a bumbag full of money and change. She'll take your order and you can just pay her.

 

If my JC starts this I'll sign on and order cod and chips..

[jasta11]

I thought those green bars were for prizes??.. 2 bars gets you a toaster, 5 bars for a DAB radio, etc. Mr P almost has enough for the combined microwave/oven.

 

Myself, I was aiming for the hi-fi system (10 bars). Another dream dashed.

[jasta11]

'..and can also include working towards the profit of the host organisation

 

Sums it all up perfectly doesn't it. Carte blanche to exploit everyone.

[jasta11]

see on UJM if u apply for a job through there UJM would it come up in application history that i had applied for as i click a job and i signed in to my account and i never put any info in and submitted it. as i never use the ujm to apply for jobs

 

It's supposed to log everything, especially job applications but I've read stories that it often doesn't do this and leaves you with no hard evidence to show the JC. I never use it this way. I'd do all your applications from other sites where it's definitely logged and you can just screen print it . Reed and CV-Library are great for this, they show all the details which the JC are looking for.

 

Nothing to stop you applying for stuff via UJ, just don't let it be your main source of proof. As Mr P says, always apply for something on weekends too, don't give them any excuse to find fault.

[jasta11]

Just returned from signing on this morning - there was still no sign of any 'Help To Work' scheme starting so as I had my usual decent adviser I asked her what was happening.

 

She said it was indeed starting, whereupon I asked her if she had any official, written guidance yet. She said they had been given guidance but that it was 'their own' at present (whatever that means) and there was nothing made public yet. I reminded her that, according to a FOI statement, guidance would be publicly available from the 28th of April but she didn't know anything about that. I had the feeling that even if there was written guidance, it wouldn't be much anyway.

 

Before I could press the matter further she said 'Anyway, you're not affected by the 'Help To Work' scheme as you finished the 2 years WP last August, so you're not eligible, it's for people who've left the WP more recently'. I wasn't expecting that one - huge sigh of relief from me. Apparently I'm a 'stock' customer (her words) so it's business as usual as far as the JC is concerned ie just normal signing. I asked if I was still classed as being on the PWP programme and she said yes - even though it's well over the 6 month stated period. Obviously they still don't know what to do with people in my category.

 

I can still be mandated to MWA as normal, as anyone can, but she's always happy with my efforts so no need for this. Her actual words today were 'I never have any worries over your efforts or jobsearch evidence' - O Lord, let me keep this decent, fair adviser! I show the same jobsearch to other advisers and while they never find fault, I can see them twisting their faces and thinking 'Damn, can't raise a doubt on this one'.

[jasta11]

The problem with storing everything on UJ is - what happens if it loses everything? This definitely has happened to people. They've gone to sign on, adviser opens their UJ and...nothing. We all know what happened next; they don't accept that UJ might have glitched (even though they know fine well it does).

 

Put a bit on UJ if you must, but have the majority of your evidence from other more reliable sites. UJ is an absolute minefield.

[jasta11]

i have applied for my first job via UJM a will see how this gets on and if i get any feedback as u can requested it.

i will keep people informed who have not used there website to apply for jobs.

 

Check that UJ has actually logged your application. It should list your applications somewhere and they might also be shown in the 'My Activities' page too. If it has, then screen print it NOW so that if it later vanishes - which can happen - you'll be covered. Don't trust the site at all; things that are there one day can mysteriously go missing the next.

 

I've even heard that UJ often doesn't record the application in the first place.

[jasta11]

i did not know jcp sent you text messages lol!.

 

got a text "dont forget to add that you are wage incentive eligible to your CV. tell all potential employers they could claim £2,275 by employing you for 6 months or more any questions please contact this number"

 

anyone ever had texts like this from jcp?

 

Dear me - junk mail from the Jobcentre now..where's it all going to end?? I withdrew my phone numbers from the JC ages ago, they can write if they ever have anything remotely interesting to say.

[jasta11]

The guidance states that 'it is not up to us to specify how customers shows their jobsearch evidence' and I assume this still applies, so using these ridiculous forms should be optional, not compulsory. All my evidence is purely screen-prints, plus the two JC-issue weekly sheets, which I get the adviser to sign and date as proof that my jobsearch was acceptable.

 

Still better to have it in hard copy though; at least that can't vanish like on UJ.

[jasta11]

I remember back in the glory days of the Job Club, we used to pick companies out of the Yellow Pages and send off spec letters. You could put that in your Job Book...'sent off 5 spec letters to local companies'. I'd stick that in for every day too.

 

The JC and WP love spec letters - even though they know they never result in anything. Shows we're trying hard though!

[jasta11]

"Not at all. I will be flying off next month on contract. So while you are stuck in this dreary office all day, I will be in the mountains breathing in fresh air and smelling the flowers."

 

..I'd be tempted to send my old JC a nice postcard of that.

[jasta11]

see even though i dont have any bar work experience etc how could i make a good covering letter?

 

my retail one is fine got them but not sure what to put esp when u have not had the experience

 

Well, a lot of your retail skills are also very applicable to bar work. You need to make sure the employee can see this straight away.

 

Able to get on well with people

Cash handling

Stocking shelves

Working to set hours

Flexible attitude, etc

 

Emphasise the 'getting on well with customers' bit as I think that's half the battle with bar staff. Doesn't matter how skilled you are, if you annoy the customers you won't last long in the job. Put something like 'I have extensive retail experience skills which would be directly transferable to bar work; the ability to get on well with customers, handle cash accurately, maintain stock levels and I have a flexible attitude' Advertise yourself!

 

Might pay to say you have a good sense of humour too, as nobody wants miserable people serving them. I worked in a bar for a few weeks once many years ago and I'd say that being able to get on with the customers is by far the most important thing.

[jasta11]

part time customer service representative

 

We have various part-time shift patterns available across our opening hours with the opportunity to flex up in weekly hours

 

Responsible for providing excellent customer service, our Customer Service Representatives are passionate about our brand. They ensure that every customer receives the best customer experience, every time they visit our stores. If you are a friendly, bubbly and outgoing individual, with a natural ability to build rapport with your customers, then we want to hear from you.

Your daily responsibilities will be ensuring you are providing the best customer service! You will set the standards of great service and ensure our customers are greeted and assisted with any enquiry they may have. Your ability to build excellent customer relationships both face to face and over the phone, will not only ensure our customers feel welcome, but will also ensure they are comfortable and educated about our products. By consistently following best practices and procedures, you will work closely with your team members to get the best results. Your ‘team player’ attitude will add to the excellent in store team culture and drive success, month in month out.

 

does this sound like self employed to u?

 

to me it just seems like a normal job.

 

All cheerful words in the ad but you'll be expected to work your a*** off and live, breathe, eat, dream 'the company'. This job would be my worst nightmare - even the JC know I don't do customer service as I haven't the patience with people.

 

I only did it once as a stopgap and left after 6 weeks as I couldn't stand the ass-kissing people, plus being virtually chained to the desk to take calls wearing a little headset wasn't pleasant either. I actually got on well with the customers as I'm a jokey kind of guy but even this caused friction with my workmates as their customers started asking to speak to me instead of them, as I was the 'only cheerful one'. I left when they tried to get me to do pro-active sales, which I explained at interview I did not do and would not do. I don't mind taking existing orders but not pestering people to buy things.

 

If this is the kind of job you fancy then go for it - but you really have to love sales and pressure and competition to stay in it. I'm all for a quiet life