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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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Black Horse Secured Loan / 2nd Mortgage arrears dispute FOS complaint


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I previously sent a CCA request as I could not locate the original that was taken out in 2001.

 

I received the attached edited copy but is I am not sure if this is correct ?

 

I then sent off an SAR and again received the same amongst details submitted.

Am I missing anything does anyone know ?

 

I've checked the forum for BH credit agreement examples but all seem to look different to mine.

 

Just one other question, should BH be sending me annual statements of some sort ?

 

Thank-you for looking.

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Cheers Ford - No nothing at all and are also missing.

 

I have been through all that was submitted and no T & C's.

 

Also received a letter advising that the secured loan (they state mortgage ?)

is being transferred to Skye Loans Limited ? I will post up regarding this on a new post.

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I received notification last week from BlackHorse advising that loan being transfered to Skye Loans Limited.

 

I today received a letter from Skye Loans advising that my mortgage has now been transferred to them (pressume they mean 2nd Mortgage ?) and that Mortgage Loan Account number has changed ?

 

They also state that there are no changes to the terms and conditions of my mortgage ? Will the original charge on my mortgage therefore change does anyone know ?

 

Has anyone heard of this company and can BH do this without my consent ?

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all is above board

 

if you look you'll see lots of BH loans have been sold to these people

 

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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  • 2 weeks later...
Cheers Ford - No nothing at all and are also missing.

 

I have been through all that was submitted and no T & C's.

 

Also received a letter advising that the secured loan (they state mortgage ?) is being transferred to Skye Loans Limited ? I will post up regarding this on a new post.

 

Well I sent another chaser regarding my SAR details received.

 

Reply from blackhorse states that no further information available and that they have provided everything.

 

no Terms of Agreement details.

 

No Annual Statements.

 

No notice of interest rate increase correspondences.

 

No Notice Sum of Arrears details.

 

Regarding the above

is it correct that they have failed to comply with CCA 2006,

therefore the agreement is unenforceable

and they unlawfully charged me interest since October 2008 ?

 

Further to the above were Blackhorse regulated on loans pre 2005 ?

 

I am somewhat confused as they have quoted the Consumer Credit Act 1974 on an old arrears letter ?

I also see that they were part of the Lloyds TSB Group.

 

If they were not regulated at the time of loan in 2001,

should they still be obliged to provide annual statements since October 2008 ?

 

Thanks for any further comments but I am trying to find some clarity.

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Hi,

 

As far as I know Blackhorse are part of LLoyds however where loans, ppi etc are concerned Blackhorse act in there own right so there is no comeback on Lloyds, I read somewhere that the FOS won't look at Blackhorse loans ect pre 2005.

 

Have to say I'm not 100% sure on this, I'll see if I can find anything else that might clarify things.

Any advice I give is honest and in good faith.:)

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Thanks maroondevo52

 

I have been searching various Blackhorse posts and some seem conflicting where FOS are concerned.

Some have been up-held and some have been rejected so sorry for questions asked just need some clarity.

 

It's just that I have now located a previous Blackhorse secured loan agreement from May 2000

which clearly states that it was CCA 1974 regulated ?

 

I have no ppi on both loans but I am trying to ascertain the validility of the agreements in place

and that regulations were adhered to.

 

any further comments would be appreciated.

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I would say they are required to send annual statements

and if they don't/haven't, they cannot charge interest for the periods that they have not.

 

if this pre dates the rules change that requires they send statements annually, I'm not sure

 

but I bet, since the statement rule change change, they cant charge interest.

 

theres threads on this

but not specific to BH.

 

dx

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?230693-creditors-not-sending-statements

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?409518-More-loan-customers-could-be-in-line-for-refunds

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Many thanks again dx for your replies.

Its very much appreciated.

 

I will have a read up on the above.

 

Therefore anything after October 2008 I may have a case.

 

In the meantime I have again gone back to Blackhorse requesting copies of annual statements as part of my original SAR

and will post up their response once received.

 

 

I have never received anything of the sort only a run of the mill statement of account since passed to Skye Loans Limited.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Just an up-date

- I still have not received a further response from BH regarding statement details.

 

I have today though now received a letter from Skye Loans Ltd stating a default balance on the account and if not paid they will add interest and fees to the account at the same rate as the loan.

 

I do not recognise the amount mentioned and they have not provided a breakdown.

 

Can anyone advise what letter I respond with disputing the amount and stopping fees being added ?

Is there a current letter used does anyone know ?

 

They also state that my home may be repossessed if I dont keep up woth repayments on the loan :shock:

 

Thank-you

 

I have attached edited letter details.

 

My OH is getting worried and whether she should contact them to increase payments.

 

Any advice as to what letter / template to send.

 

Thank-you

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willy waving.

 

why not send skpe a CCA request

 

that could be entertaining.

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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send a CCA request

 

 

£1PO leave it blank

don't sign anything

 

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Hi dx

 

Well received the attached agreement details (edited) today from Skye Loans

- can only pressume that BH had contacted them.

The agreement number has been hand written on and the refrence number quoted on agreement is completely different ?

 

They also advised that it was unregulated :shock:

Does this mean that they did not have to submit any annual statements since 2008 ?

 

I am somewhat confused as later letter correspondences received from BH quotes Consumer Credit Act 1974

and that they are regulated by the FCA ? Registered number 661204.

 

Now we had a prior secured loan on a previous property with BH Finance in 2000

in which I have located the agreement stating that it is CCA regulated ?

This was settled in July 2001 as part of our new mortgage when we moved

and later that year we required some extra funds

or further advance for home improvements, hence the latest loan.

 

Are BlackHorse and Black Horse Finance a seperate entity ?

Were Blackhorse part of Lloyds TSB ?

 

Sorry for further questions but need some clarity from any experts on here thank-you.

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Yes Ford same agreement details received from both parties yet no terms & conditions again ?

 

Yes I think you are correct about the limit.

 

I am just concerned about the legality of the agreement as we had not dated it, BH did and they have written the relevant account number on the agreement and quoted another reference number ?

 

I have requested on a couple of occassions what this refrence number refers to but the refuse to provide an explanation.

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