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    • no i meant the email from parcel2go which email address did they send it from and who signed it off (whos name is at the bottom)
    • I understand confusion with this thread.  I tried to keep threads separate because there have been so many angles.    But a team member merged them all.  This is why it's hard to keep track. This forum exists to help little people fight injustice - however big or small.  Im here to try get a decent resolution. Not to give in to the ' big boys'. My "matter' became complicated 'matters' simply because a lender refused to sell a property. What can I say?  I'll try in a nutshell to give an overview: There's a long lease property. I originally bought it short lease with a s.146 on it from original freeholder.  I had no concerns. So lender should have been able to sell a well-maintained lovely long lease property.  The property was great. The issue is not the property.  Economy, sdlt increases, elections, brexit, covid, interest hikes etc didn't help.  The issue is simple - the lender wanted to keep it.    Before repo I offered to clear my loan.  I was a bit short and lender refused.  They said (recorded) they thought the property was worth much more and they were happy to keep accruing interest (in their benefit) until it reached a point where they felt they could repo and still easily quickly sell to get their £s back.  This was a mistake.  The market was (and is) tough.   2y later the lender ceo bid the same sum to buy the property for himself. He'd rejected higher offers in the intervening period whilst accruing interest. I had the property under offer to a fantastic niche buyer but lender rushed to repo and buyer got spooked and walked.  It had taken a long time to find such a lucrative buyer.  A sale which would have resulted in £s and another asset for me. Post repo lender had 1 offer immediately.  But dragged out the process for >1y - allegedly trying to get other offers. But disclosure shows there was only one valid buyer. Lender appointed receiver (after 4 months) - simply to try acquire the freehold.  He used his powers as receiver to use me, as leaseholder, to serve notice on freeholders.  Legally that failed. Meanwhile lender failed to secure property - and squatters got in (3 times).  And they failed to maintain it.  So freeholders served a dilapidations notice (external) - on me as leaseholder (cc-ed to lender).   (That's how it works legally) I don't own the freehold.  But I am a trustee and have to do right by the freeholders.  This is where matters got/ get complicated.  And probably lose most caggers.   Lawyers got involved for the freeholders to firstly void the receiver enfranchisement notice. Secondly, to serve the dilapidations notice.  The lack of maintenance was in breach of lease and had to be served to protect fh asset. The lender did no repairs. They said a buyer would undertake them. Which was probably correct. If they had sold. After 1y lender finally agreed to sell to the 1st offeror and contracts went with lawyers.  Within 1 month lender reneged.  Lender tried to suggest buyer walked. Evidence shows he/ his lawyers continued trying to exchange (cash) for 4 months.  Evidence shows lender and receiver strategy had been to renege and for ceo to take control.   I still think that's their plan. Lender then stupidly chose to pretty much bulldoze the property.  Other stuff was going on in the background. After repo I was in touch by phone and email and lender knew post got to me.   Despite this, after about 10 months (before and then during covid), they deliberately sent SDs and eventually a B petition to an incorrect address and an obscure small court.  They never served me properly.  (In hindsight I understand they hoped to get a backdoor B - so they could keep the property that way.)  Eventually the random court told them to email me by way of service.  At this point their ruse to make me B failed.  I got a lawyer (friend paid). The B petition was struck out. They’d failed to include the property as an asset. They were in breach of insolvency rules. Simultaneously the receiver again appointed lawyers to act on my behalf as leaseholder. This time to serve notice on the freeholders for a lease extension.  He had hoped to try and vary the strict lease. Evidence shows the already long length of lease wasn't an issue.  The lender obviously hoped to get round their lack of permission to do works (which they were already doing) by hoping to remove the strict clauses that prevent leaseholder doing alterations.   The extension created a new legal angle for me to deal with.  I had to act as trustee for freeholders against me as leaseholder/ the receiver.  Inconsistencies and incompetence by receiver lawyers dragged this out 3y.  It still isn't properly resolved.  Meanwhile - going back to the the works the lender undertook. The works were consciously in breach of lease.  The lender hadn't remedied the breaches listed in the dilapidations notice.  They destroyed the property.  The trustees compiled all evidence.  The freeholders lawyers then served a forfeiture notice. This notice started a different legal battle. I was acting for the freeholders against what the lender had done on my behalf as leaseholder.  This legal battle took 3y to resolve. The simple exit would have been for lender to sell. A simple agreement to remedy the breaches and recompense the freeholders in compensation - and there's have been clean title to sell.  That option was proposed to them.   This happened by way of mediation for all parties 2y ago.  A resolution option was put forward and in principle agreed.  But immediately after the lender lawyers failed to engage.  A hard lesson to learn - mediation cannot be referred to in court. It's considered w/o prejudice. The steps they took have made no difference to their ability to sell the property.  Almost 3y since they finished works they still haven't sold. ** ** I followed up some leads myself.  A qualified cash buyer offered me a substantial sum.  The lender and receiver both refused it.   I found another offer in disclosure.  6 months later someone had apparently offered a substantial sum via an agent.  The receiver again rejected it.  The problem of course was that the agent had inflated the market price to get the business. But no-one was or is ever going to offer their list price.  Yet the receiver wanted/wants to hold out for the list price.  Which means 1y later not only has it not sold - disclosure shows few viewings and zero interest.  It's transparently over-priced.  And tarnished. For those asking why I don't give up - I couldn't/ can't.  Firstly I have fiduciary duties as a trustee. Secondly, legal advice indicates I (as leaseholder) could succeed with a large compensation claim v the lender.  Also - I started a claim v my old lawyer and the firm immediately reimbursed some £s. That was encouraging.  And a sign to continue.  So I'm going for compensation.  I had finance in place (via friend) to do a deal and take the property back off the lender - and that lawyer messed up bad.   He should have done a deal.  Instead further years have been wasted.   Maybe I only get back my lost savings - but that will be a result.   If I can add some kind of complaint/ claim v the receiver's conscious impropriety I will do so.   I have been left with nothing - so fighting for something is worth it. The lender wants to talk re a form of settlement.  Similar to my proposal 2y ago.  I have a pretty clear idea of what that means to me.  This is exactly why I do not give up.  And why I continue to ask for snippets of advice/ pointers on cag.  
    • It was all my own work based on my previous emails to P2G which Bank has seen.
    • I was referring to #415 where you wrote "I was forced to try to sell - and couldn't." . And nearer the start in #79 .. "I couldn't sell.  I had an incredibly valuable asset. Huge equity.  But the interest accrued / the property market suffered and I couldn't find a buyer even at a level just to clear the debt." In #194 you said you'd tried to sell for four years.  The reason for these points is that a lot of the claims against for example your surveyor, solicitor, broker, the lender and now the receiver are mainly founded in a belief that they should have been able to do something but did not. Things that might seem self evident to you but not necessarily to others. Pressing these claims may well need a bit more hard evidence, rather than an appeal to common sense. Can you show evidence of similar properties, with similar freehold issues, selling readily? And solid reasons why the lender should have been able to sell when you couldn't.
    • You can use a family's address.   The only caveat is for the final hearing you'd need to be there in person   HOWEVER i'd expect them to pay if its only £200 because costs of attending will be higher than that
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Bailiffs and agreement to pay


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Today I have sent a letter to Bristow & Sutor on behalf of my girlfriend with a proposal of payment. She has actually been paying but directly to the council, of course she should have been making them directly to the bailiff. As a result the bailiff has been calling and leaving letters which of course carry a fee, we are going to dispute these fees.

 

However the bailiff in question is refusing to accept the offer of payment in writting, only in person which I believe to be wholly unreasonable. Our letter states that if the bailiff continues to call it will be seen as harrasment. Is it possible to approach the court and obtain some sort of restraining order against them? The balance is only £205 and will be paid in 3 months.

 

Any advice welcome

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Guest HUSBANDKHAN

Are you on benefits or on a low income ? Take your proof to the council and that will get the bailiffs off your back.

 

 

 

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I was unsure about this. If the council have passed the matter to the bailiff, don't you have to deal with them? I had a conversation with the specific bailiff last night on the phone. She refused to acknowledge or accept a proposal in writing, she was very aggressive when I told her that I didn't care what her companies policies were, just what the law says. She said that she would continue to call until my girlfriend spoke to her. I told her that I urged her in the strongest possible terms not to do this as it would be seem as harassment and we would call the police to have her removed and seek a restraining order.

 

Am I right in my understanding that unless they have gained access, they can only charge for a 1st and 2nd visit?

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Am I right in my understanding that unless they have gained access, they can only charge for a 1st and 2nd visit?

 

YES, but don't even pay them for that, tell them to take a running jump !

Nil Illigitimus Carborundum

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The debt to the council is £205, the bailiffs can't tell me what the debt to them is as the file is out with the enforcement officer.

 

I have now changed my advice to my girlfriend, to pay the money direct to the council and let the bailiff whistel for their fees. Am I right that they would have to launch a small claims action to recover their fees or is it covered by the existing liability order?

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Right I am getting sick of all this, the Bailiff has a right to call granted to him by the court he can not be done for harassment. I guess the bailiff has never been in the house? let me know and I will write a letter to the bailiff and post it here.

 

I'm coming back to the debt forum as the advice being given is crap and it going to back fire against the users.

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Thanks Zooman.

You are right in that no entry has been made, my suspicion is that this is the reason the bailiff is insisting on negotiating payment in person, to somehow obtain peaceful entry.

 

Does the bailiff still have a right to attend repeatedly even when an offer to pay has been made? Why does she feel the need to attend in person to discuss it with my girlfriend? My only conclusion is that it is far easier to intimidate in person than in writing. Is it reasonable for the bailiff to refuse to accept an offer to pay in writing. Surely their actions are not reasonable in these circumstances and can be seen as harassment?

 

It would appear from reading these threads that bailiffs repeatedly break the law and are allowed to do so without anyconsequence.

 

Zooman, can you confirm for me what a bailiff collecting council tax arrears can and can't do?

 

Can you advocate continuing payments to the council as opposed to the bailiff?

 

Please find below a letter I have already sent.

 

Dear Sir/Madame ,

 

Further to the conversation my boyfriend had with your office this morning, I would like the following issues noted and my proposal for payment agreed.

 

•I have been making regular payments directly to Coventry City Council.

•I have tried numerous times to get in touch with your office both via email and phone to resolve this matter.

•My boyfriend has left several messages with your agent Karen, she has not returned his calls.

•I am disputing the validity of the additional charges levied against my account.

•I am asking that all further correspondence be made in writing, I will not enter in to discussion with a bailiff in person.

•Your failure to allow me to enter in to an agreement to pay over the phone is obstructionary and unreasonable.

•Please provide a full and accurate statement of my account, showing the Council Tax liability plus your charges, and details of what these charges are for.

 

I propose to continue making payment of £85 per month to clear the Council Tax liability of £205.52 direct to yourselves via online banking on the 28th of each month. Please provide me with your account details to facilitate this.

 

We believe that this is a fair and reasonable offer, any further visits from your officers will be seen as intimidation and we shall seek recourse through legal channels to have them stopped.

 

I look forward to hearing from you within 7 days.

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A bailiff will be attending to "enforce a warrant". That is their legal instrctions.

 

Believe it or not, if you take the strict meaning of their regulations, a bailiff will attend to "levy" and not to take payment. That may seem strange, and it is....in particular that from figures released in 2004, apparently only 4% of visits result in goods actually being taken.

 

Remember, if the bailiff arrives at your home, they will attempt to gain "peaceful entry". By doing this, they will have managed to get into your home...and then you will persuaded to sign a "Walking Possession" document. This is of course where the costs start rising....

 

Try if possible NOT TO ALLOW THE BAILIFF INTO YOUR HOME....

 

In regards to Council Tax: Under Schedule 5 of the Administration & Enforcement Regulations it is clear that a bailiff can charge the following:

 

For a 1st Visit, to "attend to levy" £22.50

 

For a 2nd visit, to "attend to levy" £16.50

 

If the bailiff wishes to visit you 10 times, he can, BUT HE CAN ONLY CHARGE FOR THE FIRST 2 VISITS.

 

 

Please note: that the purpose of the visit, is to levy....if he has NOT done this, then the ONLY charge can be for "ATTENDING TO LEVY".....which is £22.50

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My concern is, and you hear it here so often, is that often they do attempt to make entry and often it isn't peaceful. Of course, then its just your word against theirs.

 

Is there any legal way we can stop them attending while this debt is repaid?

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