Supplier wants to forcibly install pre-payment meters

[Josie O]

Hi

Can anyone tell me if I can stop my energy supplier forcibly installing gas and electricity pre-payment meters,

they wont send me a bill at the tariffs I agreed to

 

- the dispute has been on-going since March 2013!

Im at my wits end because I will not be able to afford more expensive tariff

- my landlord will likely evict me and doesn't want them.

 

Can I get a court order - I missed the warrant hearing as I am bogged down with other problems

 

I would be really grateful for any advice

- they plan to come next Thursday 18/5/16

- their bill for gas and electric is almost £4K

thanks

Josie O x

[honeybee13]

Hello and welcome to CAG.

 

I've moved you to a thread of your own for advice on this. Who is the energy supplier please?

 

My best, HB

[mikeymack2002]

Some history on how your debt got so high will help others give advice.

 

Who is your supplier and have you made any payments to credit your account on a regular basis?

 

Things like that please

[steviehowie]

Hi

Can anyone tell me if I can stop my energy supplier forcibly installing gas and electricity pre-payment meters, they wont send me a bill at the tariffs I agreed to - the dispute has been on-going since March 2013! Im at my wits end because I will not be able to afford more expensive tariff - my landlord will likely evict me and doesn't want them.

 

Can I get a court order - I missed the warrant hearing as I am bogged down with other problems

 

I would be really grateful for any advice - they plan to come next Thursday 18/5/16 - thir bill for gas and electric is almost £4K

thanks

Josie O x

 

Hi,

 

The cannot do any such thing without first having obtained a magistrates warrant

 

The law Electricity Act 1989 and Utilities act 2000 (schedule 6 and 5 respectively)

summarised below

 

Non-payment of suppliers’ charges

 

2(1)Where a customer has not, within the requisite period, paid all charges due from him to an electricity supplier in respect of the supply of electricity to any premises or the provision of an electricity meter, the supplier may—

(a)install a pre-payment meter on the premises; or

 

(b)disconnect the premises,

 

and the supplier may recover any expenses incurred in so doing from the customer.

(2)The power of a supplier under sub-paragraph (1)(a) or (b) may not be exercised—

(a)as respects any amount which is genuinely in dispute (disregarding for this purpose a dispute under section 39 or regulations made under it); and

 

(b)unless not less than seven working days’ notice has been given to the occupier of the premises (or the owner of the premises if they are unoccupied) of his intention to exercise it.

 

Make sure yo have a geniue dispute put in writing and tell them to F off if the come to your home.

 

Trust this helps

Stevei

[steviehowie]

Hi

Can anyone tell me if I can stop my energy supplier forcibly installing gas and electricity pre-payment meters, they wont send me a bill at the tariffs I agreed to - the dispute has been on-going since March 2013! Im at my wits end because I will not be able to afford more expensive tariff - my landlord will likely evict me and doesn't want them.

 

Can I get a court order - I missed the warrant hearing as I am bogged down with other problems

 

I would be really grateful for any advice - they plan to come next Thursday 18/5/16 - thir bill for gas and electric is almost £4K

thanks

Josie O x

 

 

Josie

 

Further to my email yesterday there was a typo. Sorry.

 

The Schedules are schedule 6 of the Elect Act 1989 on non payment of invoices and pre payment meters and or Schedule 4 of the Utilities Act 2000 on meters.

 

Make sure you head a letter " We are In Dispute" , then refer back to your previous letters, emails telephone calls etc.

 

List the letters they have not replied to.

 

Mention as stated before the protection of Harassment act 1997 see link below.

this acts states section 2:-

 

2 Offence of harassment.

(1)A person who pursues a course of conduct in breach of [F1section 1(1) or (1A)] is guilty of an offence.

(2)A person guilty of an offence under this section is liable on summary conviction to imprisonment for a term not exceeding six months, or a fine not exceeding level 5 on the standard scale, or both.

F2(3). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

 

 

And section 3 states :-

 

[F12AOffence of stalking

(1)A person is guilty of an offence if—

(a)the person pursues a course of conduct in breach of section 1(1), and

(b)the course of conduct amounts to stalking.

(2)For the purposes of subsection (1)(b) (and section 4A(1)(a)) a person's course of conduct amounts to stalking of another person if—

(a)it amounts to harassment of that person,

(b)the acts or omissions involved are ones associated with stalking, and

©the person whose course of conduct it is knows or ought to know that the course of conduct amounts to harassment of the other person.

(3)The following are examples of acts or omissions which, in particular circumstances, are ones associated with stalking—

(a)following a person,

(b)contacting, or attempting to contact, a person by any means,

©publishing any statement or other material—

(i)relating or purporting to relate to a person, or

(ii)purporting to originate from a person,

(d)monitoring the use by a person of the internet, email or any other form of electronic communication,

(e)loitering in any place (whether public or private),

(f)interfering with any property in the possession of a person,

(g)watching or spying on a person.

(4)A person guilty of an offence under this section is liable on summary conviction to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 51 weeks, or a fine not exceeding level 5 on the standard scale, or both.

(5)In relation to an offence committed before the commencement of section 281(5) of the Criminal Justice Act 2003, the reference in subsection (4) to 51 weeks is to be read as a reference to six months.

(6)This section is without prejudice to the generality of section 2.]

 

 

Remember to use the words " course of conduct" in your letter. Remember Harassment is a criminal and civil offence.

Good Luck

 

 

 

links below

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1989/29/contents

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2000/27/contents

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1997/40/contents

 

Also have a look at sch 7 of the 1989 act and sch 5 of the Utilities act 2000 on meters.

 

 

Stevie

[dx100uk]

disputing a tariff or bill or whatever

is no reason not to pay 'something' so the bill does not hit £4k.

and this situation arises

 

 

dx

[steviehowie]

Its called the cost of doing business with a customer.

 

But most of all its tax deductible. I strongly recommend more people fight energy companies who do not get magistrates warrants, go to court fail to produce a legal argument for their right to claim such monies, cheat and fail to deal with customer complaints. Someone said recently they are career criminals.

 

Fight the fight . Do not let them in next week. Do not let them change the meter without a magistrates court hearing first and a proper warrant been issued.

 

After all who to say the problem is not a faulty meter or an office IT system operator who got meter readings wrong and or its the old Bill reversal problem one of the biggest cons out by energy companies.

 

If the customer needs help come back to me.

 

I find DX 100 comments naïve and not considering all possible reasons for a dispute.

 

Stevie

 

Write t them telling them there is a genuine dispute

 

If only more would learn to tell them to go away

Edited May 18, 2016 by honeybee13
Pejorative remarks removed.

[martin2006]

Stevie, you are obviously very passionate where utilities companies are concerned, i suspect you have had disagreements in the past with them.

 

The fact remains that the OP has amassed a 4k bill for one reason or another, they havent explained why.

 

With that in mind we have no idea how this situation has occurred and it would be ill advised to simply dive straight in with which legislation to throw back.

 

The OP hasnt been back on thread since posting.

 

With an alleged debt of 4k, BG will use the 1986 Rights of Entry regulations to obtain a warrant and will no doubt get one, this will if course add further costs to the OP and pre payment meters will be installed whether the OP likes it or not.

[steviehowie]

My concern is that they should have already commenced that route if this was legitimate outstanding costs.

 

Nothing from the thread tells me that which cause suspension that there is something else play.

 

I know of one case with BG with an alleged bill of £38,000 on an 80 year old man. Why so a large sum?

 

Energy companies are no angels and I know of insistence where they turned up unannounced start to attempt to remove the meter without a warrant and where sent packing.

They do it time and time again.

 

It question did they deal with the customers complaints in a timely and efficient manner or ignore him.

 

Is the meter fault. improper functioning did the energy company properly inspect and maintain the meter.

All reasons to dispute such a bill.

 

£4000 grand is 3 to 4 years usage.

Every two years the energy companies pull the old bill reversal trick on customers and [problem] them of monies paid on account.

 

I do not have all the facts nor does anyone else so no one should judge the customer.

 

But energy companies are know law breaks and in my eyes the benefit of the doubt goes to the customer.

 

He who is without sin cast the fist stone

 

Stevie

 

If the customer dispute the bill he has a right to attend court on a dispute bill

 

Stevie, you are obviously very passionate where utilities companies are concerned, i suspect you have had disagreements in the past with them.

 

The fact remains that the OP has amassed a 4k bill for one reason or another, they havent explained why.

 

With that in mind we have no idea how this situation has occurred and it would be ill advised to simply dive straight in with which legislation to throw back.

 

The OP hasnt been back on thread since posting.

 

With an alleged debt of 4k, BG will use the 1986 Rights of Entry regulations to obtain a warrant and will no doubt get one, this will if course add further costs to the OP and pre payment meters will be installed whether the OP likes it or not.

[martin2006]

Can I get a court order - I missed the warrant hearing as I am bogged down with other problems

 

- they plan to come next Thursday 18/5

 

 

Looks like BG have already gone down that route, the visit, if for the 18th is today and not Thursday

[steviehowie]

Looks like BG have already gone down that route, the visit, if for the 18th is today and not Thursday

 

martin ,

 

and so the customer and or other future customers will be well aware of the right to fight the energy companies in he future if there is a genuine dispute and this website is a testament to that very point.

 

But it would be a hell of a lot easier if energy companies handle complaints correct efficient

and in a time lay manner ( not dragging out for 2 to 3 years or more),

told the true to customer , stopped mis selling products,

 

 

dealt with the industry wide bill reversal problems, stop [problem]ming customer direct debit accounts,

actually carried out meter maintenance as the law requirements and they refuse to deal with

and of course there repeated and multiple law breaking

 

Lets remember the list of fines( not exhaustive or limited to ) for the following:-

 

Scottish Power May 2016 - grotesque £1.00 fine ( £3million of which is tax deductable against profits to nameless charity orgainstaions) £15million Ofgem compensation to limited |SP customers.

 

Scottish Power May-14 £750,000 Over-charging

E.ON May-14 £12,000,000 Mis-Selling

 

Npower May-14 £125,000 Reporting errors

 

British Gas Apr-14 £5,600,000 Transfer blocking

 

Npower Dec-13 £3,500,000 Mis-Selling

 

Npower Dec-13 £1,000,000 Billing

 

Scottish Power Oct-13 £8,500,000 Mis-Selling

E.ON Jul-13 £3,000,000 Reporting errors *

 

SSE Apr-13 £10,500,000 Mis-Selling

 

E.ON Nov-12 £1,700,000 Over-charging

 

EDF Mar-12 £4,500,000 Mis-Selling*

 

Npower Oct-11 £2,000,000 Complaints

 

British Gas Jul-11 £2,500,000 Complaints

 

British Gas Jul-11 £1,000,000 Reporting errors

 

EDF Jun-10 £200,000 Complaints

 

EON fine for low energy bulbs £ 3million.

 

a list of sins plus those they have not been fined for .

 

This site should be aiming lobbying for better customer service, ensuring business practices are within the law, [problem]s are stopped , consumer protection laws improved ( ie, comparison site mis- selling)

 

And one last thing I have placed link after link to legislation .

Why has the mods not got these links up similar to SAR links. Why the delay?

 

Again energy companies are conning UK customers and it must be stopped.

 

Lets help customer be better informed.

Stevie

[Leakie]

If it is the 1989 act they can not force entry to change the meter , even with the warrant as it will not be a warrant on safety grounds,

omly the 195? gas act can force entry.

[martin2006]

I was referring to the 1996 regs as per the link below and not 1986(typo error on my part)

 

http://www.uklaws.org/statutory/instruments_16/doc16977.htm

 

And also the 1954 rights of entry regs

[Leakie]

What generally happens is they apply for both warrants

 

The 198? can not be for forced entry as it is not Health and safety issue, and a civil debt.

So they apply for the 1956 ? gas act on health and safety grounds to force entry the use the other warrant to change the meter.

 

It is for Debt, not health and safety grounds so the warrant officer purgers themselves in court, each time but it is ignored.

 

If it is a debt issue it should be in county court not magistrates court.

[steviehowie]

Leakie,

 

thank you for clarifying the difference between the Regulations s for the Gas and the electricity.

Rights of entry on safety grounds can be easily defeated in electrical meters, because most of the mains infrastructure has never been maintained or replaced in over 50 years. So the safety issue might be there problem ( I am ignoring serious dangers wiring but the energy companies would not know this in the first place and certainly not with new builds or less than 20 years old.

 

Just for others the Gas and Elec rights of entry 1954 act states:

 

1 Restriction on exercise of rights of entry.

(1)No right of entry to which this Act applies shall be exercisable in respect of any premises except—

(a)with consent given by or on behalf of the occupier of the premises, or

(b)under the authority of a warrant granted under the next following section:

Provided that this subsection shall not apply where entry is required in a case of emergency.

[F1(2)This Act applies to all rights of entry conferred by—

(a)the Gas Act 1986, regulations made under it or any other enactment relating to gas,

(b)Schedule 6 to the Electricity Act 1989, and

©any local enactment relating to gas or electricity,

in so far as those rights are exercisable for the purposes of a [F2gas operator] or [F3an electricity operator].]

(3)No person shall be liable to a penalty, under any enactment relating to obstruction of the exercise of a right of entry to which this Act applies, by reason only of his refusing admission to a person who seeks to exercise the right of entry without a warrant granted under the next following section.

Annotations:Annotations are used to give authority for changes and other effects on the legislation you are viewing and to convey editorial information. They appear at the foot of the relevant provision or under the associated heading. Annotations are categorised by annotation type, such as F-notes for textual amendments and I-notes for commencement information (a full list can be found in the Editorial Practice Guide). Each annotation is identified by a sequential reference number. For F-notes, M-notes and X-notes, the number also appears in bold superscript at the relevant location in the text. All annotations contain links to the affecting legislation.

 

Amendments (Textual)

F1S. 1(2) substituted by Electricity Act 1989 (c. 29, SIF 44:1), s. 112(1)(3), Sch. 16 para. 8(2), Sch. 17 para. 35(1)

 

F2Words in s. 1(2) substituted (1.3.1996) by 1995 c. 45, s. 16(1), Sch. 4 para. 5(1); S.I. 1996/218, art. 2.

 

F3Words in s. 1(2) substituted (1.10.2001) by 2000 c. 27, s. 108, Sch. 6 Pt. III para. 41(2); S.I. 2001/3266, art. 2, Sch. (subject to arts. 3-20)

 

I have placed a link below to all legislation effecting such matters as a warrant , rights of entry( on safety)or to read the meter only ( The Ofgem link to standard licence conditions needs to be added maximum period for energy companies is to read every 2 years do they mods have this for all different years, i.e 2013, 2014 or 2015?) .

 

Can I ask the mods to either set up a separate thread on legislation ( Elec and gas) and provide the short links so others may go and read how energy companies are abusing the law when the threaten to install pre payment meters in matters relating to a genuine dispute were they should apply to the county courts under a civil dispute, and in many cases don't because they are to scared to do so, and were in the first instance the energy companies have failed to comply with the Gas and Elec Complaints Handling Regs 2008 (see link below) or the standard licence conditions.

 

Bear in mind my list of law breaking for the big 6, does not let them enter court in a good light and that a customers starter for 10 in defence if they did apply to the county court for a judgement

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2008/1898/contents/made

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1989/29/contents

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2000/27/contents

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1997/40/contents

　

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Eliz2/2-3/21/section/2

 

http://www.uklaws.org/statutory/inst...6/doc16977.htm

 

Again hope this is off help to others, but mods there is lots to do to improve this site basic information. You have it for SAR or direct debit etc why not gas and elec legislation?

 

Stevie

 

What generally happens is they apply for both warrants

 

The 198? can not be for forced entry as it is not Health and safety issue, and a civil debt.

So they apply for the 1956 ? gas act on health and safety grounds to force entry the use the other warrant to change the meter.

 

It is for Debt, not health and safety grounds so the warrant officer purgers themselves in court, each time but it is ignored.

 

If it is a debt issue it should be in county court not magistrates court.