Need Urgent Advise. Please help! (Thameslink)

[shoyeb4me]

Hello there

 

I need your kind advise on the issue stated below:

 

Passenger Notice Issued on 24 November 2014 (Thameslink)

 

I am a regular traveller to Luton on Thameslink for academic purpose. Usually I purchase ticket online from National Rail website to avoid rushing at the station. I did the same on 23 Nov 2014, purchased an off peak day return ticket online from Elephant & Castle to Luton with ticket collection from Balham station. The next day I had to leave early at 6am due to some urgent event at my university and I was aware that I might need to change my ticket at counter to pay extra for peak hour.

 

During the collection of tickets at Balham station, I was wearing gloves due to freezing weather and by sheer mistake I left the outbound ticket in the machine's ticket holder, took only 2 tickets instead of 3: i) the 2-part return journey ticket (Luton-Ele&Cas) and ii) the reservation confirmation ticket. Boarded Northern line from Balham to reach E&C just to realise the ticket office at E&C was not yet opened for me to change the ticket. And there were no ticket barrier for validation for me to check if I had the correct ticket. Assuming I had all the tickets I boarded the Luton bound train.

 

Half way through a ticket checker caught me for not having outbound ticket. He was more than sure that I had no ticket at all. I showed him my return ticket, the email confirmation of ticket purchase, pleaded for the mistakes I have made for not collecting all the tickets. I even offered if we could disembark at St. Alban's station and go to ticket counter to check the system if indeed I had the ticket. I also told him if he was willing to charge me for peak hour fare which is extra £9+. He refused on the ground that I did not have any ticket at all and demanded £30+. Assumed that I had no other way but to accept passenger notice (which mentioned I should return my season ticket or proof of ticket to prosecution department within 14 days), I asked him what I should do. He did advise accordingly and mentioned someone from revenue department will contact me. I filled the form and signed. I was not given any further chance to continue the negotiation in the pretext of anything I have said could be used in court against me. I was scared enough.

 

Having the tiny passenger notice slip which has no contact details except a postal address, I wasted no time in writing to the prosecution department with the evidences mentioned above and posted it from a post office in White City on 3 December 2014. I also requested if they could give me a call or at least an email to provide status on my case. Shortly after that, I left for abroad for whole month and I completely forgot about the thing. Meanwhile, I did not receive any response from the prosecution department at all (my phone was on roaming during my travel abroad) nor even by post.

 

As always I am still travelling to Luton for my University which I have been doing for the last 1.5 years now. I have always been a law abiding commuter, followed all the rules I am aware of, paid correct fares every time I travelled and continue doing so. I have no other records of penalty/offence as my tickets get checked almost every day I travel on National Rail.

 

I was just told yesterday that even though I did not receive any letter/call from the prosecution department confirming my case has been solved, there is a chance that I had been prosecuted by now with god knows what penalty. This will almost certainly create the very first criminal record against my profile which I don't want to be there in the first place.

 

My question is:

1) If they indeed brought my issue to a court without my knowledge, which court it is likely to be? CCJ or Criminal court? I just checked my record with CCJ and there is nothing registered under my name.

2) I have since moved out from previous location, is it still possible for them to pursue me for that matter?

 

Your advise will be greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks

[unclebulgaria67]

It could be Magistrates for fare evasion.

 

Suggest that you phone the Thameslink people to fnd out what happened to your case.

[honeybee13]

Hello and welcome to CAG.

 

They would normally write to you asking for you to tell your version of events on the day. If they decided to prosecute once they received your reply, you would have had another letter telling you about court proceedings.

 

Can you check if there is any post where you used to live? I think you need to find out, because if you were found guilty in your absence, this is unlikely to go away.

 

HB

[BazzaS]

Hello there

 

I need your kind advise on the issue stated below:

 

Passenger Notice Issued on 24 November 2014 (Thameslink)

 

I am a regular traveller to Luton on Thameslink for academic purpose. Usually I purchase ticket online from National Rail website to avoid rushing at the station. I did the same on 23 Nov 2014, purchased an off peak day return ticket online from Elephant & Castle to Luton with ticket collection from Balham station. The next day I had to leave early at 6am due to some urgent event at my university and I was aware that I might need to change my ticket at counter to pay extra for peak hour.

 

During the collection of tickets at Balham station, I was wearing gloves due to freezing weather and by sheer mistake I left the outbound ticket in the machine's ticket holder, took only 2 tickets instead of 3: i) the 2-part return journey ticket (Luton-Ele&Cas) and ii) the reservation confirmation ticket. Boarded Northern line from Balham to reach E&C just to realise the ticket office at E&C was not yet opened for me to change the ticket. And there were no ticket barrier for validation for me to check if I had the correct ticket. Assuming I had all the tickets I boarded the Luton bound train.

 

Half way through a ticket checker caught me for not having outbound ticket. He was more than sure that I had no ticket at all. I showed him my return ticket, the email confirmation of ticket purchase, pleaded for the mistakes I have made for not collecting all the tickets. I even offered if we could disembark at St. Alban's station and go to ticket counter to check the system if indeed I had the ticket. I also told him if he was willing to charge me for peak hour fare which is extra £9+. He refused on the ground that I did not have any ticket at all and demanded £30+. Assumed that I had no other way but to accept passenger notice (which mentioned I should return my season ticket or proof of ticket to prosecution department within 14 days), I asked him what I should do. He did advise accordingly and mentioned someone from revenue department will contact me. I filled the form and signed. I was not given any further chance to continue the negotiation in the pretext of anything I have said could be used in court against me. I was scared enough.

 

Having the tiny passenger notice slip which has no contact details except a postal address, I wasted no time in writing to the prosecution department with the evidences mentioned above and posted it from a post office in White City on 3 December 2014. I also requested if they could give me a call or at least an email to provide status on my case. Shortly after that, I left for abroad for whole month and I completely forgot about the thing. Meanwhile, I did not receive any response from the prosecution department at all (my phone was on roaming during my travel abroad) nor even by post.

 

As always I am still travelling to Luton for my University which I have been doing for the last 1.5 years now. I have always been a law abiding commuter, followed all the rules I am aware of, paid correct fares every time I travelled and continue doing so. I have no other records of penalty/offence as my tickets get checked almost every day I travel on National Rail.

 

I was just told yesterday that even though I did not receive any letter/call from the prosecution department confirming my case has been solved, there is a chance that I had been prosecuted by now with god knows what penalty. This will almost certainly create the very first criminal record against my profile which I don't want to be there in the first place.

 

My question is:

1) If they indeed brought my issue to a court without my knowledge, which court it is likely to be? CCJ or Criminal court? I just checked my record with CCJ and there is nothing registered under my name.

2) I have since moved out from previous location, is it still possible for them to pursue me for that matter?

 

Your advise will be greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks

 

"I was just told yesterday that even though I did not receive any letter/call from the prosecution department confirming my case has been solved, there is a chance that I had been prosecuted by now with god knows what penalty. This will almost certainly create the very first criminal record against my profile"

 

What has led you to that realisation?

 

"1) If they indeed brought my issue to a court without my knowledge, which court it is likely to be? CCJ or Criminal court? I just checked my record with CCJ and there is nothing registered under my name.

2) I have since moved out from previous location, is it still possible for them to pursue me for that matter?"

 

1) magistrates court, as criminal case.

2) Absolutely, otherwise all a criminal need do to avoid prosecution would be to move. I'm not saying you are a criminal, just that moving doesn't stop prosecution.

[Old-CodJA]

You say you received a "tiny passenger notice slip which has no contact details except a postal address" which suggests to me you may have been issued a Penalty Fare Notice (PFN). Such a slip is printed on the bottom of a PFN. If so, this will have a printed number on it and the address details that you refer to. Write to that address quoting the reference number and enquire as to the status of that case.

 

If you did not receive a PFN, but the slip that you received is simply confirmation that you were reported, then once again, you should write to the address on the slip enclosing a copy of the letter that you say you "wasted no time in writing" and again, enquire what is happening to this case.

 

If you have been successfully prosecuted whilst out of the country this will have been a criminal matter and you will have been sent a notice of fine etc. through the post and usually within about 10 days of the hearing by the Magistrates Court and you should contact that Court immediately.

 

If you did not arrange forwarding your letters by Royal Mail or by a new occupant this may prove a little more difficult for you, but the rail company and the Court office will have a clear record of what happened and the Court enforcement team will undoubtedly catch up with you at any new address in due course.

 

It really is in your best interest to contact the rail company as quickly as possible

[shoyeb4me]

Thank you guys for your reply.

 

I have personally visited Thameslink prosecution department today.

 

 

The receptionist gave a whole lot details of contact point such as name of person in charge, phone, fax, email and so on

which they could have provided me during the incident day.

Things would have been much more easier really.

 

 

I was told that they did send letters and court summons to me to previous address which I obviously did not receive and subsequently failed to reply.

The court went ahead with the judgement on 20 March 2015 and I don't yet know what was the outcome.

That's been 4 month now!

 

The guy did advise me to visit the magistrate court and submit a statutory declaration mentioning I did not receive any letter.

 

Does anyone has any idea from this point on?

 

 

Anything you could help me with?

 

Many thanks

[BazzaS]

Thank you guys for your reply.

 

I have personally visited Thameslink prosecution department today.

 

 

The receptionist gave a whole lot details of contact point such as name of person in charge, phone, fax, email and so on

which they could have provided me during the incident day.

Things would have been much more easier really.

 

 

I was told that they did send letters and court summons to me to previous address which I obviously did not receive and subsequently failed to reply.

The court went ahead with the judgement on 20 March 2015 and I don't yet know what was the outcome.

That's been 4 month now!

 

The guy did advise me to visit the magistrate court and submit a statutory declaration mentioning I did not receive any letter.

 

Does anyone has any idea from this point on?

 

 

Anything you could help me with?

 

Many thanks

 

" which they could have provided me during the incident day.

Things would have been much more easier really. "

 

"Does anyone has any idea from this point on?

Anything you could help me with?"

 

Follow the previous advice on the thread, and while doing so try to avoid anything that suggests the TOC / it's staff are at fault .......

[unclebulgaria67]

Yes you do a statutory declaration explaining the timeline and that you did not receive court summons or letters from Thameslink, because you had moved. If accepted, it woukd take it back to the original summons stage and you can put your case forward.

[shoyeb4me]

Thanks again.

 

Visited magistrate court today. Found case record.

 

Interestingly, my name was misspelled, apartment number was partially incorrect and DOB was someone else's. On incident day, my particulars were recorded from a valid photo ID card and further validated by a phone call so I am sure I did not give any wrong information

 

Was fined 300+ for breaking byelaws 18(1) on March 2015, Non-compliance with first collection order, went to bailiff and compounded to 600+. Immediately called HMCTS to rectify my personal information. Also called bailiff to settle and close the account fully.

 

My question is:

 

1) any criminal record? I asked bailiff, she said none because I paid the fine already. Can someone confirm this? Don't want to be accused for withholding criminal conviction in future.

 

Please advise. Thanks

[unclebulgaria67]

So you paid in full including the bailiff fees, when you could have done the statutory declaration, which if accepted could have wound it back to summons stage ?

 

I believe 18.1 is a liability and not criminal, but that it could appear on an advanced CRB check. So if you ever need an advanced CRB, you better declare.

[shoyeb4me]

Thanks!

 

I know I could have been done the stat dec but this will create extra hassle and stress.

 

Also, Since I have already paid the fine, is it spent or unspent convictions? I am a bit confused on that too.

 

Please advise.

[unclebulgaria67]

Unspent/spent relate to rehabilitation of offenders act. It is not a criminal offence as such that you committed so it is not relevant. But i have read that it could come up on an advanced CRB check. So do some reading on advanced CRB checks and see whether this really would have any affect on you.

[BazzaS]

Unspent/spent relate to rehabilitation of offenders act. It is not a criminal offence as such that you committed so it is not relevant. But i have read that it could come up on an advanced CRB check. So do some reading on advanced CRB checks and see whether this really would have any affect on you.

 

For "advanced CRB check" read "enhanced DBS" check.

 

There are basic, standard and enhanced checks.

CRB's have been replaced with DBS's.

 

Breach of Bylaw 18 is a criminal offence, but is a "non-recordable" one so won't show on a basic or standard disclosure, only an enhanced one.

 

The rehabilitation period (based on a fine only), for an adult, is one year.

[shoyeb4me]

Thanks again guys

 

I was told in another forum that Byelaws offences are outside the scope of the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act as they aren't recordable in the first place. Since they aren't returned by any 'normal' search of the PNC, nothing to be worried about, relaying what unclebulgaria67 said earlier

 

Can anyone suggest anyone anything along this line? Any light? Will really appreciate legit information.

[unclebulgaria67]

You have been given information and it is now up to you. Not a recorded offence that would come up in normal criminal records checks, but if you were ever subject to advanced checks, it could be found. Very unlikely to have any affect on you.