help required regarding TFL prosecution - **SETTLED BEFORE COURT **

[king12345]

I wouldn't rely on TfL asking to adjourn the trial on your behalf.

After all they want a trouble free conviction and they could easily "forget" or "confuse your file with another one" and go ahead on the day.

Better to let the court know yourself.

[king12345]

Do you have any friend that can support you on the day in case the trial is not adjourned?

You will have to represent yourself but a friend could help keeping the paperwork organised and pass you all the evidence as you explain your case.

Also a moral support is always good for your frame of mind, so it won't be you alone against TfL.

Again, your friend wouldn't be able to represent you and will have to be quite, but could act as admin person given that you've never been to court and might find the process a bit stressful.

Try to keep as calm as you can, if you hear some inconsistency from the inspector who stopped you , who will be acting as a witness, don't get agitated.

You will have the opportunity to question him/her and point out the flaw in their statement.

Btw, did they send you the inspector notes taken on the day?

If not you will have another reason to ask for an adjournment because the inspector most likely would refer to his/her notes while giving evidence.

Also a lot of times the inspector final statement does not fully reflect the notes, so those needs to be compared.

[king12345]

As it looks like they will not settle out of court despite not responding to you on several occasions, can you give us more info about the day you were stopped?

Where it happen, where you were stopped (going in or out), what you said to the inspector, if you were cautioned, if you understood the caution, if you signed the notes etc.

Then we need to know what you wrote to TfL when you asked to settle out of court (a scan of the letter minus personal details would be good).

If you have put your hands up completely and admitted of deliberately try to avoid paying or something else.

Another essential bit of evidence are the notes taken by the inspector on the day you were stopped.

If you don't have a copy you will need to request it.

Let us know

[king12345]

At this point is a matter of finding a good point of defence based on their evidence, that's why it would be beneficial to see the inspector's notes and your letter.

The prosecutor most likely will approach you and try to convince you to plead guilty.

Bare in mind, they're not lawyers or barristers, they're prosecutors with legal knowledge limited to railway bylaws, rra and other very few acts.

So don't be intimidated by their cocky attitude.

Ask them once again to settle out of court (better in writing, just a piece of paper to hand over to the prosecutor on the day) because "you didn't commit the offence" but you want to close the matter.

It's important to say that you have not committed the offence if you're going to plead not guilty.

Sounds odd but it's not:

Example:

You tried to use your friend's card and were caught.

They're prosecuting under rra (5)(3)(a).

Looks like you have committed the offence because you passed the barrier.

In reality the INTENTION to avoid payment needs to be proved as per rra.

So, despite you passing the barrier you could have had no intention to avoid payment.

That's why it's important to see the evidence to find a line of defence.

[king12345]

If you have their email they should honour it.

By inspector notes I mean the full photocopy of what he wrote on his notebook on the day.

Have you got it?

[king12345]

You need to request it from TfL.

If they don't give it to you then they can't use it in evidence and the inspector can't refer to it when giving evidence

[king12345]

you mean request the original note or a copy of it? It is only one day to the hearing so I am not sure if we have enough time. They are not that quick to respond.

So they didn't give you any evidence at all?

That's good ground for an adjournment.

If TfL don't adjourn you will have to tell the court that you haven't had an opportunity to see the evidence and ask for an adjournment yourself.

Then you have to request all the evidence from TfL which they want to rely on.

I.e. inspector notes, inspector statement to the court, copy of oyster card, usage statement of oyster card, all communications etc.

Without all of this you can't defend yourself fairly because everything will come as a surprise on the day.

Request it in writing and recorded delivery

[king12345]

TfL will always produce the transferred oyster in evidence along with the usage record.

That's the most important evidence proving that the op used it at that time and date.

[king12345]

Hi rebel, just a point: TfL is prosecuting under rra 1889 and not bylaw.

So they need to prove intention to avoid payment which plays slightly in the op favour as it's not a strict liability offence.

Unless I've misread the thread.

[king12345]

I have thought Thursday was 29th but it was 30th tomorrow. So I will update what happens on court tomorrow.

 

 

 

I bought a monthly tkt on my oyster card later after the event, and I can find the past 1 year top up receipts. Would this help on my case if I have to stand on court? just say I was planning to top up later and monthly tkt would cover that day?

Let's think about an adjournment first.

They must adjourn because you have an agreement in writing and they haven't given you all the evidence.

Then we'll think about a defence.

Try not to be fobbed off by the TfL prosecutor.

If the prosecutor doesn't want to adjourn, speak to the court clerk and explain the 2 points above.

I frankly can't see them go ahead without you having the evidence in your hand.

But, if for some crazy reason they decide to go ahead with the trial your best defence would be that the oyster card they will produce as evidence cannot be admitted because you were not passed a copy of it or informed of it.

So for all other pieces of evidence apart from the inspector statement.

In this case it will be his word against yours.

Also, if the inspector asks to refer to his handwritten notes taken on the day he stopped you, you will have to object again because no copy was disclosed to you.

Anyway, I think you will get an adjournment.

Then get all the evidence by requesting them in writing and come back here for further advice.

Good luck

[king12345]

Shouldn't he mention "without prejudice" somewhere in case the don't settle out of court and decide to use this email as evidence?

Just a thought, I'm not sure.

[king12345]

Did you get all the evidence?

[king12345]

what evidence?

As said, you need to request all the evidence TfL will rely on.

Copy of the ticket, electronic statement, inspector notes and statement, etc.

Without these, even a good lawyer would struggle to defend you.

Your best bet is some problem with the evidence, i.e. inconsistency or missing.

You have to ask TfL for these asap and if they don't send them to you then the evidence would be inadmissible.

They can't show up in court and rely on surprise witnesses or evidence, it's not a Perry mason episode.

Unless you let them.

[king12345]

When you received the Summons there will have been a number of other papers in the envelope.

 

 

 

The relevant evidence including Witness Statement ( S9 / MG11 ) and a copy of any ticket / Oyster that the inspector retained along with a Statement of facts, a Plea Form, a Statement of Means (MG100) form and notice of the company's claim for prosecution costs (if any) that might be made if you are convicted, should have been served with the Summons along with other papers advising how the Court process works and what will happen if you fail to respond.

 

 

 

The ones that are materially relevant are the Witness Statement, copy of ticket, statement of facts and the Summons, which will need a Certificate of Service that is provided to the Court to confirm the date and how the company served the Summons on you to attend Court. You will not have a copy of that certificate, the fact that you received the Summons is self-evident because you have referred to it.

 

 

 

You should take all of these papers with you when you go to see a lawyer.

 

Apparently the op never got any copy of the evidence, unless I missed it along the lines.

I would be inclined to ask for all they want to rely on at trial.

Whatever they don't disclose would be inadmissible.

Or, leave things as they are and once in court, object to any evidence they come up with explaining that it's not been disclosed.

[king12345]

I do have this, but not those suggested by king12345. TFL are very hard to communicate so I don't think they will post me any evidence which are not good for them.

 

Now it's probably too late to gain the evidence.

At this point, if you decide to plead not guilty, you will have to object to any evidence that they didn't disclose to you.

For example, if they didn't send you a copy of the ticket you should object to it being used as evidence.

Probably the magistrate will overrule, but if you politely insist that you were put in a position of disadvantage by not having the evidence, the magistrate (especially in case of a lay bench) would ask the clerk opinion.

The clerk is obliged to say that by law every piece of evidence must be disclosed to the defendant.

So, if they missed something important like a copy of the ticket, there would be no evidence to convict you.

In practice you would get off on a technicality.

However it's not unusual for magistrates to use common sense rather than the strict letter of the law, in my example they could allow the ticket to be used in evidence because it's clear that your position wouldn't have changed if you had a copy of it.

I would ask for an adjournment based on the fact that you haven't got all the evidence.

As said, your only hope is that there's some inconsistency in the evidence, that's why you need all of them.

[king12345]

Nice one!