Old Company HCEO Enforcement

[Trikkitt]

I'm posting here just to make sure I'm doing everything I can do. Suggestions welcome!

 

Problem:

I'm the director for a limited company currently trading at an industrial unit. I've received a notice addressed to the previous occupant of the building (kindly incorrectly delivered to and opened by a neighbouring business) saying that they need payment of £35k by next week or they will attend (it has the new fee structure mentioned as post April 2014). I've called them and explained I'm a different business and I took out a lease early last year on the premises, so there is nothing of the old company there any more. They asked me to email this to them, which I did. They have simply replied saying they are passing the information to their client. Obviously I'm worried that they will attend and cause my business problems, especially as I'm seldom there myself and we are generally closed weekday day time... I don't want to find they've attended and broken in (it is a commercial property) and taken things!

 

Obviously I can't stop them entering the building - we are open for business and it would be impractical to lock the door and check everyone trying to get in.

 

I've double checked there isn't any paperwork relating to the old company in the building, anything that arrives for the old company is normally sent back as no longer at this address.

 

The notice is made out to the limited company name. The new company has an entirely different name. However the trading name is the same. i.e. we kept the trading name the old company used. This trading name isn't mentioned on the paperwork I've seen.

 

History:

So to give a little background. The previous company at the address was part owned by me, although I wasn't a director. An incident occurred that resulted in someone going to a no-win-no-fee solicitor, we passed this to our insurance company and thought nothing of it (other than the £1k excess fee they wanted!). Fast-forward almost 3 years, we get contacted by a solicitor as it turns out the insurance company is insolvent and can't pay up and hasn't settled and it is going to court. They offer to settle for about £15k but the business doesn't have that sort of money, in theory we could scrabble to get that together to settle things, but it would mean not paying the landlord or staff for a considerable period - risking the business and causing hardship for around 15 people. Around the same time it also comes to light that the two directors who own the other half of the business haven't been completing their responsibilities, such as VAT returns and a host of other things. End result is that I tell them I'm out and want nothing more to do with it..... OR they can shut it down and I'll start a new business on my own.

 

So I start a new company, this time totally owned by me, insured by a UK company (that was a lesson and a half, public liability insurance isn't compulsory and therefore is only covered by FSCS when with a UK insurance company (possibly EU, but I'm sticking to UK). I take out a new lease from the landlord and purchase the stock from the old company and pay for it (they used that money to pay the staff so I'm told, as the staff got paid late and only after I paid for the stock).

 

Please keep in mind I've never seen a bank statement from the old company or had access to the bank accounts. I've never drawn money from that business, in fact I loaned it about £5k and I've lost that money! I was just a share holder, but quite an active one (lets just say it wouldn't have stayed open without my input).

 

As I said at the top, any suggestions are welcome! Obviously the different companies should protect me.... I'm just worried they'll try some dodgy tactics if they attend, and I want to be prepared. Its going to be a nightmare to prove ownership of everything in the building if they ask me to.

[tomtubby]

Although slightly complicated I can now understand the scenario and the enforcement agent is correct in that he MUST revert back to the creditor. Is the previous company (which I assume was a Limited Company) still trading or has it been 'struck off the register' at Companies House?. It is worth checking.

[Trikkitt]

Although slightly complicated I can now understand the scenario and the enforcement agent is correct in that he MUST revert back to the creditor. Is the previous company (which I assume was a Limited Company) still trading or has it been 'struck off the register' at Companies House?. It is worth checking.

 

The old company is a limited company, and is no longer trading to the best of my knowledge. I've struggled to get in contact with the two directors to get any info from them... It hasn't been struck off. As a large share holder I've tried to call an general meeting to discuss things and get an idea for where things are at, but with little success. The accounts are now overdue... so it looks like they still aren't filing things they should.

[ploddertom]

Is your Ltd Co name significantly different from the old one?

[Trikkitt]

Yes the two company names are very different from each other.

[brassnecked]

What HCEO company is enforcing for the debt?

[tomtubby]

You have stated that when you started the business that you purchased the previous companies assets and that you have proof of purchase. From the answers given in the last few posts I am quietly confident that the creditor will instruct the High Court Enforcement co to withdraw enforcement of the writ.

[Trikkitt]

The Sheriffs Office are the HCEO.

 

I purchased the stock, not the assets. The assets are somewhat more complex - some are owned by me personally, some by another company I own, some by another join venture company. It is the joint venture company items that I'll struggle with if they want to investigate them... as I don't poses the paperwork for them....

[Trikkitt]

Just so I understand what they've said. They take the info I provided back to the creditor who will then decide how to proceed. What options do the creditors have?

 

1) Still try and enforce the writ at my premises anyway

2) Attend the old company registered address (does this require an amended writ?) - this also happens to be the home address of one of the directors.

 

Do they have any other options, and if they choose option 1 is there anything I can do to prepare?

[HCEOs]

The HCEO will attend and take control of the goods. You will need to make a third party claim. That claim will be put to the creditor for them to admit or dispute. If they admit it then the goods are released from control, if they dispute it then you will have to make an application into court (£155) and pay the value of the goods into court with the application. A hearing will be listed where a judge will consider the evidence and make a decision as to whether the goods can be sold to satisfy the debt.

 

When you make your claim it is therefore imperative that you provide as much information as possible about the purchase of the goods and include copies of receipts, bank transfers and details of bills of sale registered in the High Court.

[Trikkitt]

When you say take control of the goods, do you mean they will remove them, or stop me using them, or just tell me I can't remove them? Obviously I'm worried about my business being able to operate if they visit.

 

Do you know the time scales for this type of thing. It could take some time to trace every single item I have on site. I'm confident I can trace most of them, but just tracking down that info could take a while for some of the older stuff. For example I purchased a lot of equipment over many years so I can run the business - basically buying off ebay and private individuals when stuff was going for a song. Trying to find receipts from 8 years ago won't be easy!

Edited May 19, 2014 by Trikkitt

[HCEOs]

Providing you sign a Controlled Goods Agreement then you can retain their use until the ownership issues are resolved. If you refuse to sign, under the new regulations the Enforcement Agent has little choice but to remove the goods.

 

Given that you've already had Notice it is likely that an Enforcement Agent will attend soon. Once you issue a third party claim and if the creditor disputes your claim then a hearing is usually listed in around 2 to 3 months depending on the court. If you bought goods off eBay then you can print your history and PayPal will show who paid for it.

[Trikkitt]

Many thanks for the information.

 

I tried to speak to the HCEOs to find out what is going to happen. All they will say is "we will pass the information to our client", and refuse to tell me anything more than that... using "Data Protection" as a lame excuse. My question was simply, "will you be sending someone to my premises, and if so when?"

 

The reality is, all I want to know is if/when they will attend so I can be there. I'd rather not have the staff intimidated by them, I feel at least I should be there to deal with things. However I can't when I've no idea when or if they'll attend as my main work is highly mobile but quite planned so if they just turn up there is a high probability that I'll be unable to attend and possibly not even available on the phone! Very frustrating when all I want to do is sort things out.

[HCEOs]

I doubt you will be provided with that information. The Enforcement Agent will be allocated the matter and usually will plan a route. Depending on where you are on his journeys will depend on when the visit will be made. This is further compounded by the jobs before yours. If he they get stuck on one with the Police on site it delays things further.

 

Best bet is to advise your manager that an HCEO will be attending and ask him to call you as soon as they do.

[Trikkitt]

I can understand that - a route plan could be seriously disrupted if a visit takes a lot longer than normal. Just a shame that they won't even confirm or deny they will visit me. Just knowing that would either let me sleepy easier or try to plan a little for a visit from them.

 

If I have evidence on site that shows ownership of items as not belonging to the name on the writ, surely they can't levy them? So it would only be any items I can't find a receipt for that is at risk? Also if I'm not there, how could I sign a Controlled Goods Agreement... ?

[HCEOs]

Firstly, an HCEO is commanded to take control of goods by the Writ. They will attend.

 

Secondly, it will depend on what that evidence is. So often had scribbled receipts are produced which understandably don't count for much. Be straight with the HCEO and they should give you the opportunity to resolve it with a third party claim.

 

And thirdly, any person (over 18) in apparent authority can sign the CGA.

 

Your involvement in this debtor seems pretty murky so be prepared with as much info on the actual debtors as you can. At the end of the day, the HCEO wants the matter paid, so if you can direct him somewhere where this could happen it will only help your cause.