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    • just to be clear here..... the DVLA do not send letters if a drivers licence address differs from any car's V5C that shows the same driver as it's registered keeper.
    • sorry she is a private individual, the cars are parking on her land. she can clamp the cars. only firms were outlawed from doing it bazza. thats what the victims of people dumping cars on their drives near airports did and they didn't not get prosecuted.    
    • The DVLA keeps two records of you. One as a driver and one for your car. If they differ you might find out in around a month when they will send you a reminder as well as to your other half for their car. If you receive nothing then you can be fairly sure that you were tailgating though wouldn't explain why they didn't pick up your car on one of drive past their cameras. However even if you do get a PCN later then your situation will not change. The current PCN does not comply with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 Schedule 4 which is the main law that covers private parking. It doesn't comply for two reasons. 1. Section 9 [2][a] states  (2)The notice must— (a)specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates; The PCN states 47 minutes which are the arrival and departure times not the time you were actually parked. if you subtract the time you took to drive from the entrance. look for a parking place  park in it perhaps having to manoeuvre a couple of times to fit within the lines and unload the children reloading the children getting seat belts on  driving to the exit stopping for cars pedestrians on the way you may well find that the actual time you were parked was quite likely to be around ten minutes over the required time.  Motorists are allowed a MINIMUM of ten minutes Grace period [something that the rogues in the parking industry conveniently forget-the word minimum] . So it could be that you did not overstay. 2] Sectio9 [2][f]  (ii)the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver, the creditor will (if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met) have the right to recover from the keeper so much of that amount as remains unpaid; Your PCN does not include the words in brackets and in 2a the Act included the word "must". Another fail. What those failures mean is that MET cannot transfer the liability to pay the charge from the driver to the keeper. Only the driver is now liable which is why we recommend our members not to appeal. It is so easy to reveal who was driving by saying "when I parked the car" than "when the driver parked the car".  As long as they don't know who was driving they have little chance of winning in court. This is partly because Courts do not accept that the driver and the keeper are the same person. And because anyone with a valid motor insurance policy is able to drive your cars. It is a shame that you are too far away to get photos of the car park signage. It is often poor and quite often the parking rogues lose in Court on their poor signage alone. I hope hat you can now relax and not panic about the PCN. You will receive many letters from Met, their unregulated debt collectors and sixth rate solicitors threatening you with ever higher amounts of money. The poor dears have never read the Act which states quite clearly that the maximum sum that can be charged is the amount on the signs. The Act has only been in force for 12 years so it may take a  few more years for the penny to drop.  You can safely ignore everything they send you unless or until they send you a Letter of Claim. Just come back to us if they do send one of those love letters to you and we will advise on a snotty letter to send them. In the meantime go on and enjoy your life. Continue reading other threads and if you do get any worrying letters let us know. 
    • Hopefully the ANPR cameras didn't pick up the two vehicles, but I don't think you're out of the woods just yet. MET's "work" consists of sending out hundreds of these invoices every week so yours might be a few days behind your partner's. There is also the matter of Royal Mail.  I once sold two second-hand books to someone on eBay.  Weirdly the cost of sending them separately was less than the cost of sending them in one parcel.  So to save a few bob I sent them seperately.  One turned up the next day.  One arrived after four days.  They were  sent from the same post office at the same time! But let's hope I'm being too pessimistic. Please update us of any developments.
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
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BC penalty charges probably **WON** with compound interest**


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Just to keep the thread updated, documents posted to Salford today. Keeping our fingers crossed that BC will respond quickly. It's already cost us £115 in court fees :-(

 

So what happens next? The documents get recorded at court, are allocated a case number and dated then a copy sent to BC. They have 14 days to respond. If they do not reply in that time we can apply to the court for judgement (N225). If they decide to defend then we have to fill in a N180 to tell the court more about the claim and it could cost an extra £170 or more, depending on how it proceeds.

 

Just making sure I know what to expect :-)

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Hi Hillards,

 

CCMCC Salford will process the claim asap and will inform you of the date of issue. This will dictate the dates by which the bank must acknowledge and defend.

 

Use the time now to research preparation of your court bundle.

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

I've been going over several accounts here today to make sure we're up to date with it all.

 

Just wondering how long to give Salford to respond. Posted on the 2nd June, 1st class, at a Post Office to get certificate of posting but didn't use signed for delivery as the address was a PO Box.

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Hi Hillards,

 

RM Signed For delivery is not necessary when sending stuff to the court service.

 

I'd allow 14 days for CCMCC to process the claim and a couple more days for the papers to come back to you.

 

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I'd allow 14 days

With remission that's only 9 days, rounded down :-)

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Still not had anything from the court ourselves but BC have written to say they have sent an acknowledgement of service dated 11/6 to the court and are preparing their defence. We have been assigned a trainee solicitor as point of contact who is '...investigating the matters raised in your claim...' and advises us to take independent legal advice.

 

When we sent the paperwork to Preston we indicated our local county court as preferred venue, if it went that far. On the BC paperwork they show Northampton, I guess they got that wrong then.

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I phoned Salford CCMCC and they say to allow a couple more days, if we've not had our copy by then to write to the court and tell them.

 

Thanks to BC we at least have the case number :-) As they've sent in their acknowledgement they now have until July 11th to submit a defence, or withdraw

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Info has arrived from court. Now we have to wait for BC's trainee solicitor to work out if they are going to defend the case or settle.

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Hi Hillards,

 

Barclays will defend !

 

SabreSheep's supporting posts about their own case have been removed as we can follow their case on their own thread. Trying to keep this thread less bulky. :wink:

 

:-)

Edited by slick132

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Barclays will defend !

Oh Goody - that means I can include things like their original response, which claimed that their charges were fair etc. - but then the SAR revealed that all the charges on the account were £20 !

 

Obviously we're quoting Kleinwort Benson v Lincoln City Council with regard to s32 of the Limitations Act 1980 and Sempra Metals v Inland Revenue Commissioners for interest in restitution.

 

I'm just wondering what defence they can give ? :lol:

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Don't worry you will get a Barclaycard template defence.

 

From experience Barclaycard will start to negotiate a settlement with you normally

7 to 10 days prior to the court date. Much like a game of 'Poker' hold your nerve

and you should get back 90% of your claim.

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Why only 90% ? I'm pretty sure that they have no defence, all charges being claimed are over the OFT £12 suggested limit, so they are all being claimed back as in hundreds of similar cases. The only things they may quibble about is the level of interest in restitution, but that's also quite well documented as something they allow.

 

With the added documentation from when we did the SAR and they said they had checked and that all charges were fair I reckon that they should just cough up :-)

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From experience Barclaycard will start to negotiate a settlement with you normally

7 to 10 days prior to the court date. Much like a game of 'Poker' hold your nerve

and you should get back 90% of your claim.

 

Barclays Litigation will normally enter negotiations much earlier than that and one can start the negotiation process any time after Directions are given setting out the relevant dates and submission deadlines. Some BC cases have been settled before the CAGger has even needed to submit their court bundle.

 

One should look to get the best result from the claim that you can. In some cases, that will be 100% and, in others, the Claimant may be happy to settle at 90% or less.

 

The charges being over the OFT's £12 suggested limit is not really relevant - you're arguing that the whole of each charge is an unlawful penalty.

 

In any event, let's see how this pans out and we'll deal with facts and events as they occur.

 

:-)

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Use the time now to research preparation of your court bundle.

OK, so I've been looking and have found lots of threads asking where the basic court bundle can be found, indications are given that it's in the library but I've reached the stage where I've got to give up and ask - because I can't find it... :noidea:

 

Help ?

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Hi Hillards,

 

We appear to have an ongoing problem with the basic bundle.

 

See my PM to you, so I can fwd a copy by email.

 

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Hi Hillards,

 

We appear to have an ongoing problem with the basic bundle.

 

See my PM to you, so I can fwd a copy by email.

 

:-)

 

Thanks Slick, have replied.

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Hi Hillards,

 

Link to the Court Bundle is here as a Word Doc't - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?423796-SabreSheep-Vs-Natwest-Moorcroft&p=4556956&viewfull=1#post4556956

 

I should add that Site Team Andyorch commented - "BTW its very rare that a bundle is required in SCT claims.....more Fast Track now days."

 

We have seen BC (or Barclays Litigation) refund chgs and compound restitutionary int't using this Bundle in the past, but you could maybe reduce the size of it if you wanted.

 

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Thanks to Site Team Andyorch for referring to CPR Guidance. See 3.1 to 3.10 here - http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part39/pd_part39a

 

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Thanks to Site Team Andyorch for referring to CPR Guidance. See 3.1 to 3.10 here - http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part39/pd_part39a

 

:-)

Have d/l bundle too. Looks like I've got my homework for a few days... :-)

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Conspiracy, Both slick and Hillards double posted today. they = the same person XD j/k

 

Sorry couldn't resist this off topic bit haha

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  • 3 weeks later...

BC were given until July 11th to submit a defence - if they don't, do we just ask the court for a judgement in default under Part 12 of the CPR ?

 

We've not heard a peep out of them since a letter came from their trainee solicitor asking for our email address. I sent them one and explained that we wanted everything in writing by post, but that they could use the email address to send copies in advance if they wished.

 

The court issued a joint form, the top part is the Notice Of Issue, which explains that if the defendant does not reply etc we can send the bottom part back which is the Request For Judgment (that's how they spell it on the form, my spell checker does not like that!). The form allows (if you can write small enough) for amounts to be stated from the original claim, the additional interest since the date of claim, court fees and solicitors fees (if any).

 

What about other costs involved, all the postage, time spent doing the paperwork? - I'm sure there's something about a litigant in person being able to claim a set amount per hour if they don't use a solicitor. All of which can be added on if the case goes to a hearing, but do we really lose out on that at this stage ?

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They have till the end of Friday then

 

On Monday phone the ccmcc and confirm if they have received the banks defense.

If the answer is no, wait till monday IMO and then if they still have not, file for summary judgement.

 

However I suspect It will have arrived by close of play Friday

Edited by SabreSheep
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However I suspect It will have arrived by close of play Friday

Me too, but just checking in. I'm a bit loathe to allow them any extra time, the court have them until the 11th and they have had more practise at getting documents to the court than I have :-D

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Hi Hillards,

 

BC will defend by the deadline usually. Check with CCMCC next week and report back.

 

:-)

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