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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
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      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

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Ok..here I go.

On 22th of December I made the single most stupid thing in my life. I tried to steal about 70 pounds of stuff from a B&Q store. They were mostly bits and drills,small things.. Only I and God knows how I felt and still feel after that event..so I won't try to justify myself. Instead I'm asking for some advices.

Long story short: got caught,taken in a room,police were called,given a fixed penalty notice of 100pounds (which I paid),details taken,banned and told to await a call from a Civil Recovery company withing a week or two. The security guy told me 100 times how important is to answer the call and pay the fine,otherwise I would be taken to court immediatly.

I've been ever since awaiting for that call,to answer and pay for my shameful act so that I can sleep better. I have not received any calls or letter to this day,only a mysterious "private number" call which I missed this morning,a call that I'm inclined to believe it was from them.

I stated to the manager and the security guy that I would pay five times that amount,only because I was so ashamed of myself and I wanted to do the right thing. I almost begged that they accept 350 pounds right there on the spot.

I even intend to pay this civil recovery fine,but I'm not so sure

Can you guys provide me with some advices/replies,please?

What's the worst that can happen now? Will I get a criminal record or something like that?

When I do receive a call or letter,what should I do?

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DO NOT PAY THE CIVIL RECOVERY BUSINESS.

 

 

It is NOT a fine in any sense of the word. The police have already dealt with you, its over, done. The civil recovery business is basically a huge con to extort money out of you. If you pay, you are legitimising their borderline illegal business practice.

 

The civil recovery cannot do ANYTHING to you regarding a criminal record. Only the police and courts can. They cant say anything to pursuade the police or courts, because frankly, it has got nothing to do with them.

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

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Hi and welcome to CAG

 

Here you will not be judged as you have done that yourself.

 

You received a fixed penalty from the plod. Now I cannot say whether this stays on any police record or not. Others will have to say.

 

As for the CIVIL claim, whichever company contacts you, they are after profit. Nothing to do with crime prevention.

 

Even if they did take you to court (highly unlikely) it is not a criminal case and no conviction will result if you lost.

 

I would now wait and see what appears through the post before your next step. IF they try phoning, just say 'In Writing' and hang up.

If you are asked to deal with any matter via private message, PLEASE report it.

Everything I say is opinion only. If you are unsure on any comment made, you should see a qualified solicitor

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If it was the Police who gave you the FPN and you paid it then that is the end of the matter.

 

You will not be judged on this site. If the above is correct you have been dealt with by the police and paid the penalty.

 

You won't get a criminal record as this has been dealt with as a civil matter.

 

The Civil Recovery people may try and get you to pay them some money but you really should not be parting with anything to them. They have no power to take you to court, only the retailer can do that and as I have said this has already been dealt with via a Fixed Penalty.

 

You may receive threats and intimidation from the Civil Recovery people but do not give in to them.

 

Have you read some of the other threads here about Civil Recovery? If not you would be wise to do so as there is a wealth of information which you will find useful and perhaps interesting.

 

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But the security guy told me he's got me on CCTV and will send the footage to a Civil Recovery Company,which therefore will be used in a court in case I won't pay the fine.

Thank you for your understanding. It's really a heart lifting.

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You have already paid the fine which was issued by the police.

 

Only the retailer can issue against you which is extremely unlikely.

 

Of course the security guy would tell you that....he works for the Civil Recovery company.

 

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Sounds like this security guard is on commission.

 

It doesn't matter that they have CCTV. The police have dealt with it.

 

Make no mistake, they will try everything to get you to cough up but please read around the forum and see what happened in other cases.

 

If you really want to investigate more, go on the RLP website and see when they last (read that as retailer) took anyone to court.

If you are asked to deal with any matter via private message, PLEASE report it.

Everything I say is opinion only. If you are unsure on any comment made, you should see a qualified solicitor

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This is a civil matter. There will not be any criminal conviction.

 

You have paid the fixed penalty issued by the police.

 

You have been dealt with and that is the end of it on that front.

 

Civil Recovery (whichever company B&Q use) will try and intimidate, frighten and bully you into paying money to them. Do not fall for it as you will only be helping to fund their operation to intimidate and frighten others into giving them money which they have no right to demand.

 

It has been suggested that you do some reading around the forum at other similar threads. There are many of them.

 

Go and do some reading and all will become clear to you.

 

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The police took the option to give you a fixed penalty instead of prosecuting you through the Court system. That is the end of their involvement, so stop worrying on that score. You will not have a criminal record, however the matter will be retained on file and disclosed if deemed relevant during any future DBS check which may be required for certain jobs etc.

 

As stated previously you should not pay any Civil Recovery company a penny. They have no part in what has happened and are merely trying to extract money to which they are not entitled. Anything you pay does not go entirely to the retailer - the vast majority goes to the CR company. They will write to you and issue dire (and groundless) threats that you will be hauled in front of a Judge at the County Court and made to pay for your wrongdoing - just remember though that only the retailer themselves can do this, not the CR company, and they will almost certainly not do so - a)due to the cost which they would be most unlikely to recover, and b)because any claim would be made on extremely shaky foundations and in a defended case they stand a very high chance of losing and putting at risk the entire CR business model - which is exactly what happened in a case a little under two years ago.

 

They will be hoping (hence why they tend to strike whilst the iron is hot) that your shame and the threat of scary sounding words like 'Court' and 'Debt Collector' will be enough to make you pay up to make the problem go away. One particular organisation even loves to trawl through these pages to match details with cases on file and will tell you that your posts acknowledge your wrongdoing and that you have not expressed remorse for your actions and should take professional advice because we are all layabouts who know nothing and are putting you at risk. The only real risk is to their balance sheet!

 

With a bit of a thick skin however, what will make them go away is to ignore them completely - save for perhaps sending a single line response - 'I deny any liability to your company or any client that you claim to represent' and after four or five increasingly desperate letters they will get a scary debt collector to write (although there is no 'debt' to collect) and they will then refer it back to their client 'to prepare papers to issue proceedings' and that should be the last that you hear.

 

You have done wrong, you know this, and no doubt you are most unlikely to do it again - paying an exorbitant and unnecessary sum of money will not change that, but it will legitimise their borderline unlawful demands and we cannot stress enough that CR companies should have no place in the justice system whatsoever. The police had it in their power to prosecute but chose not to do so - that is where it should always start and finish with criminal offences. In the hands of those who represent the law.

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Stop. Worrying. The police have dealt with it. its done, finished over. 70 is a lot to you, but NOTHING to B&Q. Move on with your life and ignore the silly Civil recovery company. it doesnt matter if they werent in a sellable condition, as we've stated multiple times now, the police have dealt with it, the matter is now closed.

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

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  • 1 month later...

So,I've received my letter on the 26th of February. It's from Civil Recovery Solutions and they're claiming 180,then says something about settlement figure which says I only have to pay 145.

I see this company is different from the usual RLP. It says "On behalf of Civil Recovery Solutions Limited".

Is there any chance they'll take me to court?

Any advice is most welcome.

Thank you !

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Ignore or send the one line letter. They are exactly the same as RLP.

 

Can you scan and post up that letter. I dont see how they are saying on behalf of CRS when its CRS sending the letter.

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

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CRS are the same as RLP. Full of bovine excrement. There letters contain certain key words. 'May' 'Could' 'If' They rarely say 'Will'

 

CRS can take no action independently from B&Q.

 

RLP used to work for B&Q until B&Q sacked them and sent this response to the BBC watchdog program.

 

"At B&Q the safety and security of our customers and employees is a priority. Like many retailers we use Civil Recovery as a mechanism to deter shop lifters from our stores. We have ceased working with Retail Loss Prevention (RLP) having given them notice at the end of October 2010. We instructed them at the time to drop every case that had been highlighted by the Citizens Advice Bureau's report including the one you featured in tonight's programme. Our aim is to ensure our Civil Recovery policy is used in only the most responsible way."
So they drop RLP and CRS take over. A most responsible way? Nope! Just as bad.

 

This is just the first of the chain of threat-o-grams designed to intimidate before passing the 'debt to a debt collector. Ermm! What debt?

If you are asked to deal with any matter via private message, PLEASE report it.

Everything I say is opinion only. If you are unsure on any comment made, you should see a qualified solicitor

Please help CAG. Order this ebook. Now available on Amazon. Please click HERE

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Chances of taking you to court? ZERO as they dont have any rights over anything. You can recover monies owed by civil action and that debt can be for a breach of contract, civil tort (where a wrong has been done to you that has cost you money) and for certain damages under statute law. None of this applies to these people and they know it.

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