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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
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Black Horse debt, lowells & a default issue


Cabaye
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Hi cab. Did the original creditor put that default date on your file, or did the new owner?

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

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Lowells have form for doing this when they buy debts. Have you checked with the credit agency to see who put the initial marker on your file?

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

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Yes I've been trawling through these forums since I discovered the default and noticed this is quite common!

 

I have raised a query with Experian, who have contacted Lowell for me to investigate. I'm fully expecting the standard "we asked the, they said it's correct" response though.

 

I've actually called Lowell, Black Horse and Experian about it over a month ago, who said they would all look into it for me, but no one got back to me.

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if you get that response, tell them that you didnt ask that question. You want to know who put the original default date on and what it was. You want the historic entry which they can tell you.

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

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Funnily enough, when I last spoke to Experian, I asked if it is possible to go back to before 2010 on my file and was told no. I can only go back as far as when I signed up to Credit Expert, which is understandable, but I would've thought they could look back further. Apparently not. I'm intrigued as to what was there before then as I suspect the alleged debt would be SB'd by now.

 

I actually dispute the debt in it's entirety, but thought having the default date corrected would at least remove it from my file as I am currently applying for credit and this is causing me problems.

 

When I get an email back from Experian, I'll start up a thread of my own.

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Just got off the phone with Experian again. They have contacted Lowell, but no response so far.

 

The bloke on the phone said that the default date would have been provided to Lowell by BH.

 

Thanks for the advice Brig, I'll get the SAR and CCA letters sent out.

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so when did you open the black horse loan

 

and when did you not pay it.

 

who's to say lowells did default the debt?

 

black horse might have done that and lowlife inherited it.

when was it sold to lowlife?

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Hi DX,

 

The account was opened in Feb 2006 with BH. I can't remember for sure, but my last payment would've been in early 2007.

 

The default date is Feb 2010, so I can only assume Lowells bought it from BH at some point after that date... Perhaps BH changed the date to make it a more appealing purchase to Lowells!?

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they wont care even if its sttute barred

they'll still try and fleece people.

 

if you look on noddle

it normally should payment history going back 6yrs

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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opps no links

 

try:

 

Credit Reference Agencies:Experian Equifax CallCredit noddle

fed up with DCA's calling get a TRUECALL BOX!! - HERE

 

Sort Your Debts Now - -

here

 

Start Your Own Thread - HERE

 

 

1. Single Premium PPI Q&A

Read Here

2. Reclaim mis-sold PPI Read Here

3. Reclaim Loan, Credit Card, mortgage & CAtalogue Charges Read Here

my views are my own...seek legal advice if ness

NEVER EVER - act on a private message asking you to visit another website, make contact 'off list' or by telephone

- alert the siteteam IMMEDIATELY by hitting the black warning triangle on any message - Particularly if this results in a request to pay a fee to help you.

 

 

 

 

DX

RIP Martin3030

rant.gif

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Thanks dx,

 

I signed up for Noddle but it looks like the free version only shows the score number and no other details. I already pay for Experian and Equifax so don't really fancy paying for another CRA Service.

 

Will the SAR and CCA letters help me find out the actual default date?

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Noddle shows everything. The score you have to pay for.

 

Click one of the links on the left and the accounts should be listed on the right

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

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Looks like you will need to SAR the oc as advised in post # 7

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

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Thanks dx,

 

I signed up for Noddle but it looks like the free version only shows the score number and no other details. I already pay for Experian and Equifax so don't really fancy paying for another CRA Service.

 

Will the SAR and CCA letters help me find out the actual default date?

 

theres no legal remit for any details of the default to be inc in the sar

 

the account was opened in feb 2006

closed in 2007 [how do you know this? you paid it off?]

 

as theres no payment made +6yrs

cant see how the history stops 2012 on noddle>

 

 

 

only record in say a comms log that one was sent.

 

somethings not right here.

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Sorry, I don't think I'm being very clear.

 

Let me give a bit of background:-

 

In 2006 I purchased a car on finance through Black Horse.

 

After less than a year, I lost my job and knew I was going to have problems repaying the finance,

 

I contacted Black Horse.

 

It was explained to me that I could simply return the car, and the sale would cover the remaining finance.

 

A few months after I returned the car, I was contacted about an outstanding debt with BH.

I explained that I returned the car, but was told there was still an outstanding balance of over £9000 to settle.

I disputed this of course and didn't hear anything for quite some time.

 

Since then, every 12 months or so I have been contacted by different DCA's chasing the payment.

Each time I have told them I don't owe any money, and that this is an error. Then I don't hear anything for months.

 

I recently signed up to credit expert, saw this 'default' and now want it sorting once and for all.

At the moment, I am applying for credit, and this being on my file is of course causing issues.

 

In answer to your questions, I didn't say that the account closed in 2007, I said that the last payment I would've made was in 2007.

 

I don't have any experience in this kind of thing, so I'm sorry if its not making sense!

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Debt is obviously bad, and it seems like they know it. The DCA's are chancing their arm, as all they see is the £9000 mark on their spreadsheet. I bet they only paid £100 for the debt if that, so to get anything out of you would be pure profit for them.

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

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sri I was going by post 1.

 

ok that's al lot clearer now

 

when you returned the car

that would not have ended the finance

as you'd not paid 50%

 

if you think it is now 6yrs or getting close to that

 

quite pers i'd be sending whomever wants money off you the SB letter.

 

your issue here is the account showing an outstanding balance that has only just [feb 2010] been defaulted.

 

i'd take a gamble here

 

phone black horse and ask them when your last payment was.

 

or

await the SAR return.

 

you are going to have trouble getting this default removed

the best you might do

is a brig letter to gt it moved to 3mts after last payment.

 

the fact that the debt is/might be SB'd sadly makes no odds to if/if not it shows on your CRa file.

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Thanks for the replies guys, I think I'm going to hold out and see what the SAR and CCA letters bring back.

 

you are going to have trouble getting this default removed

the best you might do

is a brig letter to gt it moved to 3mts after last payment.

 

the fact that the debt is/might be SB'd sadly makes no odds to if/if not it shows on your CRa file.

 

dx

 

If I got the default moved to 90 days after the last payment, wouldn't that remove it from my credit file (if it was over six years ago)?

 

Also, sorry, but what is a "brig letter"?

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you're learning.

 

brig letter

 

ask brig to do you one of his letters

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Just a quick update,

 

I've sent SAR letters to BH and Lowell today.

 

I spoke with someone at the National Debt line who advised I just sent SAR letters and not a CCA at this stage,

as sometimes that can be used as an acknowledgement of the debt.

 

Just a case of sitting tight now and seeing what happens.

 

I'm going to keep this thread as up to date as I can so other people can follow it through from begining to end.

 

It's a shame a lot of the posters who start threads don't come back and keep them updated as it's a real big help for people to be able to learn from others experiences.

 

Thanks for all the advice so far!

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