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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
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Idem Claim form - Lloyds Loan -***Claim Discontinued***


Tiredngrumpy
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as soon as you get a claimform

 

theres no harm in sending another CCa request

either

even though it might not be applicable

or you've sent one before the claim arrived

 

as theres a doubt here it IS a bank account

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Thanks DX,

 

Regarding the doubt over the type of account here,

 

I'm 99% certain this IS in connection to loans.

 

The SAR info suggests so and so does the PPI paperwork.

 

"Oleg" also picked up on this point in an earlier post

 

and point 3 of their statement of particulars rather shoots them in the foot if they think otherwise wouldn't you say?

 

Does a new CCA request go to the dca or the solicitors address at this stage please?

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sols

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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The claim has now been acknowledged on MCOL with my intention to defend all.

 

I've sent off a new (2nd) CCA request and CPR disclosure request to the solicitors via special delivery yesterday.

 

My main/first line of defence is a lack of agreement and their failure to respond to my CCA request at this stage BUT there's still this grey area over the type of debt. (I'm 99% certain this is for loans but they say it's for an overdraft.)

 

Is there anyone with insider knowledge of how the banks "package" defaulted loans? Could it have been that they used my current account overdraft to accumulate the defaulted loans onto? - I'm only speculating here and trying to cover why they may think this is linked to my current account.

 

When I still had a repayment plan with Lloyds/BLS the statements were always for one large amount which was the sum total of the 3 seperate loans added together. I don't have any paperwork to suggest this is in any way linked to my current account .

 

Can anyone assist me with my defence please?

 

Thanks

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Is not unusual to amalgamate loans and overdrafts...but it makes life simpler for the claimant to plead its a current account as the paper trail will be minimal and easier to get judgment on the balance of probabilities.

 

If you are sure that they are consolidated loans then you must fight it as that and request copies of the agreements etc.

 

Regards

 

Andy

We could do with some help from you.

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It's now been 7 calender days since submitting a request to disclose (CPR 31.14) to their solicitors. We've obviously had the Easter Bank holiday during this time so I'm not sure if this affects things?

 

Baring in mind I now have a week left in which to submit a defence, what would be a suitable course of action? - Embarassed defence?

 

Thanks

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No such thing as an embarrassed defence you submit a defence that puts them to strict proof.

 

Regards

 

Andy

We could do with some help from you.

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Sorry andyorch, Please can you explain a bit more?

 

This is all new to me and I thought I'd read posts where the claimant had not responded to disclosure requests and the defendant included a section within the defence stating they are embarassed into defending with a lack of information?

 

Is there a draft defence that 'puts them to strict proof' please?

 

Thanks

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There are defences as such but I have no idea what it means or who came up with the idea and are not CPR compliant who ever drafted it.

 

Most of the threads surrounding yours or at least on page 2 of the Legal Forums contain defences that put the claimant to strict proof to disclose.

 

Regard

 

Andy

We could do with some help from you.

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Thanks for clearing that up.

 

I assume the correct action is to apply for a directions order to the court to "force" disclosure or strike out?

 

This may seem a daft question but is the cost for an order added to the case costs or payable up front by the defendant?

 

Thanks

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No thats not the correct approach again that idea was dreamt up by the person who devised the " embarrassed defence "

We could do with some help from you.

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Oh ok,

 

It seems I'm not achieving anything from the posts I've been reading as everything is incorrect.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by "post 2 of the legal forums"? Do you literally mean the 2nd page of peoples cases or is there a sticky?

 

I'm finding this rather hard going as everything I seem to have read is wrong. :sad:

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Page 2 of the legal forums not post 2 will contain ongoing threads were posters have already submitted their defences..their are some on this page.

 

Evereything you refer to is old..times have changed.

We could do with some help from you.

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It's not that I've done this before in days of old or anything. I've just been using the site search tool at the top of this site.

 

Sorry "post 2" was a typo.

 

So to be clear, I don't apply for any orders, write to anyone else, just submit a defence using info from page 2 here?

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Yes thats the procedure...obviously you edit any defence to suit your situation ...once you have submitted your defence then their will be plenty for you to do. look at the dates of the threads you are viewing...obviously if it 4 years old look for something fresher.

We could do with some help from you.

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Unfortunately I'm still struggling to find anything of relevance to support a defence in my case within the first few forum pages. :|

 

I've been thiking about the letters I have from Lloyds and Idem stating no CCA exists..

 

A) Can these be included as evidence in my defence?

 

B) Would Estoppel apply if they try to argue the debt is for an overdraft. (I have no clue how Estoppel works at this stage, just some brief reading.)

 

Thanks

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I've started working on a defence now which I will post up in due course.

 

How do I go about including some background details to the case please?

- I was thinking of including the covering letter I received from Lloyds with my SAR info which clearly states

I had 3 loans and no agreements are available for these.

 

I don't know where or under what heading this should be in my defence?

 

I could also include some of the other SAR info which shows the loans ad up to the same amount which is then shown in statements

(proving a link to this debt and the fact it IS for loans and therefore should need a CCA or 3 in fact.)

 

The only downside I can see to this is that I will be disclosing original account numbers which could help them with forging CCA's?

 

Any assistance please?

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you have until the 2nd of may?

 

the DQ is where you go into details

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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you have until the 2nd of may?

 

the DQ is where you go into details

 

Thank you for the response dx100uk.

 

Yes, 2nd of May sounds about right I think but not sure if you were questioning the cut off date or my timing? - You've worried me now. :???:

 

DQ = Directions Questionnaire, yes?

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  • 2 months later...

Hi,

 

I haven't posted for a while..

 

I submitted my defence before the deadline, I also wrote a letter to the sols asking for disclosure of the docs metioned in the PoC under CPR.

 

They replied saying they required 14 days and could I ask for an extension. - I ignored their request as I'd covered non disclosure in my defence.

 

I checked that the defence was with the court on the Royal Mail Tracking Website and it was.

 

All went quiet so I called the court after about a month and was told it was still waiting to be looked at.

 

Today I have received a letter from Arden stating that my debt will be passed to Wescot within 5 days of the date of the letter which is dated 27th June, so basically it's happening today. It doesn't say it's been sold, just passed to Wescot to be collected on their behalf.

 

WTF?? :!:

 

I'm guessing Wescott are still under the Paragon umbrella?

 

Surely they can't do this while my account is in dispute with pending court action?

 

Any pointers on a course of action here please?

 

Thanks

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Ignore them they cant do anything...as you state its now a matter of litigation.Shows you how competent they are they dont even realise they are in the middle of suing you.:-)

We could do with some help from you.

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Thanks Andyorch!

 

Just phoned the court to make absolutely sure nothing else was happening and

 

they said that the case is STILL being processed,

 

it went to the DJ about a month ago so they're not sure what the hold up is

and have put a query note on my file to find out what's going on.

 

I mentioned the latest letter to the court assistant who told me there was a bar on any action being taken by the claimant until the DJ had commented.

 

- Not sure what that's all about?

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If you have not received a directions questionnaire N180...its going nowhere ..the claimant has not responded to your defence if your submissions exceeds 28 days.

We could do with some help from you.

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Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group - The National Consumer Service

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