Stopped on commercial car without commercial insurance with domestic insurance on way to work. Car not on my name

[joralveg]

Hi,

 

I have been stopped by police this morning on my way to work. It's my boss car but I'm insured only for domestic use (I didn't know). The car has our company name written on it but the our insurance policy says that I can drive it to work. ( I didn't know this either at the time police stopped me).

 

Police claims that is a company car and needs a commercial insurance.

 

After tell me that I wasn't insured I was very nervous and in one of the answers I said that I might use the car to meet clients after.

 

Then they claim the car was used for Commercial purposes so I'm uninsured, £200 penalty, 6 points car seized.

 

They whole argument is that I said I was going to use it for work which I denied later saying the truth; I was going to work. I even have a witness as my girlfriend was in the car. In the penalty it says that there weren't passengers, which is inaccurate either.

 

What can I do?

 

thanks for your help

[sailor sam]

Hi and welcome to CAG.

 

We must be careful here as I think there is more to this than meets the eye. Under (i think) 165 of the RTA, the police MUST have reasonable grounds to seize a vehicle to make it lawful. They must of been satisfied that you were not insured to drive the car and thus they seized it to prevent you committing any further offences.

 

But you say you were driving your boss's car and contradict yourself in relation to the usage. On minute you are suggesting that you were driving it for a non-domestic purpose and then you say you are insured to drive it to work. So, there seems to be a very thin line here to what is regarded as domestic use and business use. Most (if not all) normal 'domestic' policies do allow for commuting to and from your place of work.

 

I find it strange that they say you were not covered to drive it commercially when it's your boss's car and you are an employee. My thought is therefore that the car is insured incorrectly by your boss, therefore you MAY have a defence against a subsequent conviction. Problem is that your boss maybe the one who has committed an offence.

 

The above of course, is based on what you have told us. The police must have some reason to have stopped you in the first place unless the car was showing as being totally un-insured on the ANPR in which case the matter would be totally different.

 

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

[joralveg]

Thank you very much for the prompt reply.

 

Just to clarify.

 

They stopped me because they were doing routine checks on cars so they stop me randomly while driving.

 

The car was insured for domestic use only therefore I'm insured for domestic use only.

 

The insurance policy that my boss has says that I'm insured to go "to and from a place of paid employment", which is what I was doing. Maybe police didn't know this at the time.

 

I said to them that I may use it later for work purposes which I denied later. ( I guess that when I said this they saw that I was going to commit and offense in the future therefore they seized the car).

 

So should I appeal the 6 points and £200 penalty on the grounds that I was commuting to work and according to the insurance policy I am insured for that purpose even though they claim I was using it for commercial purposes?

 

Can my boss appeal seizing the car or they were right to seize it based on being obviously a company car (name everywhere ) and me saying that I may use it to work so I may commit an offense in the future?

 

Thank you very much.

[citizenkain]

surely if it was a commercial vehicle it would be insured as such and not domestic use,thats why the police have taken it,your boss has tried to save on the insurance and got caught,well,you got caught!

[sailor sam]

Thank you very much for the prompt reply.

 

Just to clarify.

 

They stopped me because they were doing routine checks on cars so they stop me randomly while driving.

 

The car was insured for domestic use only therefore I'm insured for domestic use only. So how did they know that you wern't using it for domestic use? As I said previously, domestic use includes driving to and from work.

 

The insurance policy that my boss has says that I'm insured to go "to and from a place of paid employment", which is what I was doing. Maybe police didn't know this at the time. As above

 

I said to them that I may use it later for work purposes which I denied later. ( I guess that when I said this they saw that I was going to commit and offense in the future therefore they seized the car). I don't see an issue as long as you wern't carrying goods.

 

So should I appeal the 6 points and £200 penalty on the grounds that I was commuting to work and according to the insurance policy I am insured for that purpose even though they claim I was using it for commercial purposes? Were you given an FPN or have you been 'reported' for the offence(s)?

 

Can my boss appeal seizing the car or they were right to seize it based on being obviously a company car (name everywhere ) and me saying that I may use it to work so I may commit an offense in the future? From what you are saying I would say deffo appeal. Under sec 165 RTA, the seizure may not be lawful from what you are saying.

 

Thank you very much.

 

This is a car we are talking about isn't it? Can you tell us the make/model plz?

 

Please Note

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

[joralveg]

Thank you very much Sailor Sam,

 

Yes, I've been given a FPN, does this make any difference? Should I still appeal?

 

Regarding the seizure of the car, sec 165 rta, says " if the constable has reasonable grounds for believing that the vehicle is or was being so driven." I guess they have grounds to believe so being quite clearly a company car.

 

It's a estate agent's so there isn't goods or tools in the car. Being 5 minutes from my house in the direction or my work place i guess that it should not been too difficult to prove that I was using domestically, ie commuting to work.

 

Thanks for your help.

[ericsbrother]

Your own insurance, presumably, covers you to drive any car for domestic purposes. The police officer is saying that driving the car to work is in breach of that insurance so you were uninsured. you stated that you may use the vehicle for business purposes later which is why he siezed the vehicle, to prevent a crime in the future. I would guess that your boss has now recovered the vehicle by showing insurance that would allow them to do so.

I would be tempted to ask you boss to pay for a lawyer to argue this one for you, you have a witness and it seems that it was being driven with third party insurance on your own policy so there was no breach at the time you were stopped. Also, there is no such thing as a "routine" stop, the officer must have cause or reasonable suspicion that an offence was being committed or about to be committed to stop you. The ANPR wouldnt flag anything up unless your boss was known to the police so you have a good case to argue in your defence but I wouldnt do it by myself as some judges DO look down on people representing themselves in these cases, better to have a solicitor saying it for you. Speak to your boss very soon.

[assisted blonde]

Not all policys allow you to drive another vehicle 3rd party check that yours does

[crem]

you stated that you may use the vehicle for business purposes later which is why he siezed the vehicle, to prevent a crime in the future.

 

that reason to seize a vehicle seems a bit thin I think. If I said to the officer I may drive to the pub later but I'll try not to have too many to drive home afterwards, do you think he should have the power to seize my car there and then "to prevent a future offence"? I only said I MAY do so and I MAY inadvertantly end up over the limit but I don't think that would qualify as grounds to seize.

 

In this case, the OP only said he MAY use it for work later. If the officer had by then already checked that the insurance wouldn't cover this, surely he could simply have advised to OP of this that he cannot use it for work later coz it won't be insured.

[dacouc]

If you had no reasonable reason to suspect you were not insured on a company vehicle eg your boss has told you that you're covered, there's a specific defence under the Road Traffic Act.

 

"(3)A person charged with using a motor vehicle in contravention of this section shall not be convicted if he proves—

(a)that the vehicle did not belong to him and was not in his possession under a contract of hiring or of loan,

(b)that he was using the vehicle in the course of his employment, and

©that he neither knew nor had reason to believe that there was not in force in relation to the vehicle such a policy of insurance or security as is mentioned in subsection (1) above"

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/section/143

[ericsbrother]

I didnt say that I thought it was reasonable for the officer to behave as he did, just that it may have provided him with an excuse to do so, however tenuous.