No help available anymore, what a waste of time. ** PLACED IN SUPPORT GROUP **

[stewey]

Just got my form to fill in from ATOS, totally baffled by it all, Welfare Rights don't help anymore, told me to go to citizens advice, don't want to have to speak to yet more strangers about personal details, sick and tired of it all, don't think I'll bother, they can do what they want, evict me from my house, put me in prison where they'll have to look after me at higher expense...this is what happens when the obscenely rich get into government.

[honeybee13]

Hello there.

 

Is this an ESA50 you've received? We have a guide here for physical illness and I can find you an online one for mental health.

 

My best, HB

[stewey]

Hello there.

 

Is this an ESA50 you've received? We have a guide here for physical illness and I can find you an online one for mental health.

 

My best, HB

 

Thanks, that would be helpful, and yes it's the ESA50. Can't believe people with illnesses like MS which I have, as well as several other problems are being put through this.

 

I'm being investigated for Autonomic Neuropathy with breathing difficulty, slow pulse and other symptoms and I don't think the stress of all this is doing much to help my health.

 

Thanks again

[honeybee13]

Hello again.

 

Here's a link to leemack's stikky for you, hope it helps.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?316210-ESA50-Guide

 

And this was done by Herts County Council, if you want a different viewpoint.

 

http://documents.ncodp.org.uk/DRN%20Docs/Herts%20County%20Council%20esa50%20guide.pdf

 

HB

[dibdabable]

I know it may all seem like too much but do apply, you'll find this site a real jewel and has helped many people get what they're entitled to.

 

Remember it's what you're entitled to you're not asking for anything more or less.As humiliating as it can be sometimes there's also purpose in doing what we do for others too.

 

When filling your ESA50 remember that it isn't your diagnosis but how it affects your ability to perform the descriptors that's what's realy important.. If for the majority of the time you cannot perform a descriptor taking into account, reliably, repeatedly and safely, then you should answer "No" to that descriptor even if you can do it part of the time and use the box below to explain why you have answered "No".

 

Obviously diagnosis will help give them supporting evidence as to how your illness may affect your ability to do and so sending any supporting medical evidence at this time will be valuable, however do make sure you send your form back in well within the date you've been given. Make sure any additional pages you use have your Name Address and N.I and try and keep things stapled to the form a list of your repeat meds too.

 

If you are still waiting for evidence and you feel you need to get the form off in the post you can always add a note, that further evidence will be sent. You can send that again with the above on it for identification so they can marry it up with the ESA50.

 

Take heart. They don't always get it wrong, they often get it right but we tend to hear all the horror stories, which whilst very real are not an indication of how you'll be treated. Just be honest and factual and giving a summary of your daily activities ie. a typical day may enable them to make a decision on paper and not have to call you in for a Face to face Assessment.

Edited March 18, 2013 by honeybee13

[stewey]

Thanks HB and dibdabable,

 

I've got a couple of weeks to get it back to them now, and have supporting letters from MS Specialist Nurse, GP, and Clinical Psychologist I was seeing for 4 years until last year.

 

Filling it in is the difficult part so I think I'll type all the answers on the PC and get my daughter to write it all in the form and sign it.

 

I still don't feel confident given the 'horror stories' as you mention, but I can't see how they can deny it on appeal.

 

There is so much conflicting information...DWP told me there was no way I'd be put in the Support group as it is only terminally ill and only 3% are put in Support. If I have to attend the Jobcentre they'll be calling an ambulance probably every time I'm there.

 

Welfare Rights told me that was rubbish, and that if there was a substantial risk of me harming myself or others I would be placed in the Support category. I did the self test honestly and truthfully and scored 120 points.

[honeybee13]

Hello again.

 

Well done for your hard work, keep going. I don't think the DWP told you the full information on the Support Group, I agree with Welfare Rights.

 

HB

[biglesbo]

Suggest anybody going for an Atos assesment watches this

We really dont stand a chance

 

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xwg0up_atos-secret-filming_news#.UVFqUldcbwG

[dibdabable]

I've written loads of info on a PM but I can't PM as I don't have enough posts ;(

There was lots I thought of that might help you. If you can PM me maybe and give me your email and I can respond to your email if you want, don't give it if you're not happy to give me your email.

[honeybee13]

I've written loads of info on a PM but I can't PM as I don't have enough posts ;(

There was lots I thought of that might help you. If you can PM me maybe and give me your email and I can respond to your email if you want, don't give it if you're not happy to give me your email.

 

Dibdable, I'm afraid email contact is not encouraged for various reasons and I would ask stewey not go give out this information.

 

Could you not put the information on the forum so it could help Stewey and other caggers?

 

HB

[dibdabable]

No I understand that completely. It would be fine for me to share although it's a bit long!

[dibdabable]

Stewy I thought it would be more helpful if I wrote and told you my experiences.They're a bit long but hopefully they may help you and others on the forum.I know you're not at an Appeal stage and there's nothing to suggest you would have to Appeal, but there's a reason that I want to share that experience with you.

 

I've been unwell since 1997. As time has gone on I have developed new conditions which have meant I've been unable to return to my job as a midwife.

I received sick pay and then had to apply for Incapacity Benefit, everything was fine until in 1998 I was called for a medical, being an honest person and in the medical field myself, I thought it would be enough to simply tell the male doctor how difficult it was to do anything and how much pain I was in. That was my mistake, thinking I'd be believed, or rather that I would be challenged. Now I'm not going to make you more anxious what I am going to do is make you aware that you are going to have to play to win. I'm not talking about cheating the system as that's fraud it's simply playing them at their own game.They are looking to save money that's what drives them and they are target driven and when money is given for targets being reached, it's always bad news.

I am genuinely unwell, I have documents and results a plenty,that's good but not enough because it's all about the descriptors and about function not your condition. The result of this Assessment was I was told I was no longer entitled to IB. When I asked for the reasons given for that decision, I was as a medical person astounded at the way the truth had been told in such a way to make it difficult to call him an outright liar but he didn't write what I said and added his own assumptions lets leave it at that.

 

One question he asked me was if I could wash my clothes. I explained that my daughters sorted out the colours etc and I used a helping hand to put the clothes in the machine, did the same taking them out and put them around a horse rather than a washing line which I couldn't do. He wrote in his assessment "can do all household chores", whilst still not being able to believe that a doctor would say something like that about something which was so important to me and my wellbeing, I knew I had to fight this terrible injustice. I saw it as an absolute quest to right the wrong. They didn't give you any money during the Appeal phase back then,or if they did no one told me about it, so I had about 4 months of no income, with 3 very young children and a husband working full time on a minimum wage. It was a terrible time and I can remember now the stress it caused I don't know what I'd have done without my parents who helped us out financially. I got the Appeal in quickly and went through every single question, with a fine tooth comb, pointing out where I had said one thing, he'd said another.

Well I spent those four months preparing. I was ready for the fight. I went into the room of the Tribunal, I walked out 5 minutes later crying and hugging my husband as the Tribunal found me unfit for work in about 4 mins, I didn't know what to do I was ready for the fight of my life and I didn't need it. They could see immediately this was an injustice and the judge actually told me that regarding the law at that time I should never have been called for a Medical in the first place!!

 

I learnt so much about myself and the experience taught me that it's a them and us situation, again this isn't meant to worry you but don't think they are on your side. I am not suggesting for a moment that they are all like that. In 2011 when i had my change from IB to ESA I went through without a Medical into the Support Group, because I had done my homework, I knew that the ESA50 was one of the most important links in the chain. I know my problems are physical and you have both physical and psychological so things are harder in that you are automatically more vulnerable. Physical illness makes you vulnerable anyway, quite apart from the added concerns of a mental health issue, but I would urge you to do this and see it through.

 

Remember to photocopy all your reports and send the ESA50 by recorded delivery take the advice I gave on the Forum, read each descriptor and answer it as to what happens most of the time, so if you can't do something 5/7 days then you'd definetly answer No to a descriptor but make sure you explain that you have answered no because most days you'd be unable to do that descriptor. It is hard work and time consuming, but better to give too much info now and enable them to possibly make a decision on paper. If you need more help come back and I'll check every day. If you can, photocopy the questions and answers that you gave. I find that it helps when I come to fill in further reports later on. Also I always attach a couple of pages adding what my daily routine is and say how and when I need to stop or I need to do it this way because of pain,tiredness,breathlessness etc, so they can see clearly what your life is like.

 

Oh and I realised I didn't put in the link for the website I mentioned which was the benefits and work site. They do ask for a subscription but it's the best money I've ever spent. They are offering a years subsciption for about £16, I know it's a lot in these times, but I can tell you you won't need to go anywhere else if you use it. They have guides for physical and mental descritors and what to watch out for when filling out the form what to say and what not to say, so I couldn't recommend it more strongly. It keeps you up to date with all the current changes with ESA and DLA and PIP. You feel like someone's actually on your side.

Can't write the link in for some reason but it's benefitsandwork, then put www. and co.uk befoe and after.

 

 

Just remember you haven't had a decision until you hear it from them, so no news is definetly good news at present. You know, if you are entitled to claim this Benefit and that's what you must keep in mind, I see it as a matter of principle and I'm not going to let them win. There are lots of places to feel supported online,.

 

Finally I am not terminally ill so what you were told by the DWP is absolute nonsense and I'm afraid an example of their ignorance very often of what is actually going on. The unofficial figure is 31.3% are placed in the Support Group that was in 2011 following the pilot I believe, that doesn't include those who appealed from other groups and were subsequently put in the Support Group.You certainly don't sound to me like someone who'd be able to carry out regular work, but remember it's not so much the diagnosis and illnesses but how your life is affected by them and your functioning ability.

 

If when you've sent it and if you are called for a medical do let us know. cos there are things to know about this too. Very very last thing when you send your form off, staple a piece of paper asking if you are called to a medical you request it be recorded. guess now it's good luck and try not to get too stressed get indignant and strong

 

Hope this isn't too much info.

Edited March 27, 2013 by dibdabable

[pitcher]

Thanks HB and dibdabable,

 

 

Filling it in is the difficult part so I think I'll type all the answers on the PC and get my daughter to write it all in the form and sign it.

Hi stewey,

There is an ESA50 form online (just google it). you may find it a lot easier to complete than a paper one.

Good luck

pitcher

[Nystagmite]

Hi stewey,

There is an ESA50 form online (just google it). you may find it a lot easier to complete than a paper one.

Good luck

pitcher

 

I did this and it was so much easier.

 

As mentioned you don't need to be terminally ill to get into the support group. I'm not terminally ill and got in there with no problem.

[dogboneday]

I did this and it was so much easier.

 

As mentioned you don't need to be terminally ill to get into the support group. I'm not terminally ill and got in there with no problem.

 

Neither am I! In fact I could very well work if I wanted to and I was put in the Support Group back in January 2010 for 3 years, then again on review in January this year until June 2014 when I will be 65.

 

The first assessment I failed but passed on reconsideration whilst the second was all down to the ESA50 and a copy of my 5 page repeat prescription - no other evidence was sent in and went straight back into the SG.

[stewey]

Thanks alot again guys for all the support, and thanks for taking the time to tell your story in such detail dibdabable, it is very helpful and I'm sure there'll be many others who can make use of your advice.

 

I'm just getting to the form filling now, and I'm leaving nothing out about my day to day living. I've actually put "Please read attached notes" in the box "About your illnesses and disabilities" on page 5, and I've typed up 4 pages so far, and that's just on how my MS affects me, the many different symptoms suffered, and how they limit my daily living. I haven't even started on the psychological problems, but I just hope they read it all. They say "If you need more space please use page 17 or a separate sheet of paper" !!! Do they really think anyone can detail their conditions in that little box, or the slightly bigger one on page 17 ???

 

I also have 3 letters now, one from my MS Specialist Nurse who clearly states that even if adjustments could be made to facilitate employment, I would be physically unable to undertake this due to the nature and variety of symptoms...it'll take me a couple of days to get this done I think, but I should get it in on time. Here's hoping!

[stewey]

I'm puzzled...how many points do you need overall, after filling out the form, to be placed in the support group..? Is it 15 overall, or 15 from each question?

[honeybee13]

It's 15 overall, but I think there might be a complication if you have mental and physical problems. Hopefully someone in the know will be along with information.

 

HB

[stewey]

It's 15 overall, but I think there might be a complication if you have mental and physical problems. Hopefully someone in the know will be along with information.

 

HB

 

Thanks, as I cannot walk 50 metres without stopping several times with fatigue, pain, and breathlessness, then I ought to be in the support group on that point alone. Having just watched the undercover doctor programme linked by biglesbo, I'm now starting to wonder again

[Nystagmite]

It's 15 points from one descriptor or meet one of the criteria relating to swallowing food.

 

If you score 9 points from one descriptor and 6 from another, you'll be put into the work related activity group. (WRAG)

 

Can you use a wheelchair? It's now about mobilising and not walking.

[stewey]

I couldn't even hold a conversation properly as speaking leaves me breathless. The fatigue and pain from even minor physical effort renders me completely unable to do much at all.

 

I also have a psychologist report stating that I have an inability to interact with others, and I'm unable to trust anyone. I have photographs of the severe self harm I have carried out in the depths of depression, showing my upper thigh having been stabbed dozens of times with a scalpel and Stanley knife. That was just prior to one of many suicide attempts. Something tells me I'm going to be revisiting that particular practice in the near future:frown:

[dibdabable]

Stewey, I won't try and pretend that I have any idea of what life is and was like for you, all I can do is hope that you believe that there are people here for you and all you can do, is get as much evidence as possible together, to support your claim, but I think more important than that try and relate your dysabilities to things you know would relate to you getting a job. You could have every diagnosis under the sun but it's how it affects function that's important.

 

For example,in my case I have trouble both sitting and standing, so I say that I would be unable to sit and/or stand at a work station, I then go on to explain that I would have to lie down after having done this for a few times so that after a while I wouldn't be ble to this function at all.

My best piece of advice is if you get called to an assessment then do try and take someone with you, it's so much better for you and if you can't have it recorded by them then get your friend relative to do it covertly. You can do this for your own purposes and will be helpful if you need to Appeal. I have just been advised by Atos that they have referred back to DWP saying that there's enough evidence for a face to face assessment to not be necessary. I am presuming that this means they're keeping me in the Support Group. Now I'm certain this was possible because I basically preempted anything they might ask at a Medical by in effect answering it in the ESA50.

 

I realise this requires a lot of organisation and thought and it is incredibly tiring and stressful, it took me 3 weeks to fill the form in, because of the pain in my hands, but it has hopefully been time and pain well spent.

Do come back if we can help more, keep your head up and the matter of principle here is you are only claiming what you're entitled to.Best Wishes Stewey.

[stewey]

Thanks for the moral support dibdabable, I do appreciate it.

 

As well as the letters of support I have, I will relate the story of my own attempt at taking a college course 5 years ago, when my health wasn't quite as bad, and yet even then, I was forced to give it up after a couple of months because for over half of the lessons I spent the entire time sitting in agony with nerve pain and complete fatigue and exhaustion. It was only 2 & 1/2 days a week yet I just couldn't manage even half a day before my health, or rather ill health took over. I hope that this will also show them that it would be impossible for me to hold down any sort of employment, even as my MS nurse stated, if they were to make special arrangements.

 

I think I'm getting stressed now as I've left it so late...my own daughter ended up in hospital seriously ill a couple of weeks ago, thankfully she was okay after a few days, but it put everything off course and now I have really got to get this whole form filled by the end of the week to make sure they get it by next week...it gets really tiring even with one of my children filling it out, but I still have to dictate and make sure I have everything covered...

 

I'll keep you posted anyway...and congratulations on your own result, I'm glad to hear at least one good result!

[stu007]

Hi

 

This is the ESA50 Form its in PDF with form fields that you can fill in:

[pitcher]

I couldn't even hold a conversation properly as speaking leaves me breathless. The fatigue and pain from even minor physical effort renders me completely unable to do much at all.

 

I also have a psychologist report stating that I have an inability to interact with others, and I'm unable to trust anyone. I have photographs of the severe self harm I have carried out in the depths of depression, showing my upper thigh having been stabbed dozens of times with a scalpel and Stanley knife. That was just prior to one of many suicide attempts. Something tells me I'm going to be revisiting that particular practice in the near future:frown:

Hi, stewey

Let me just echo dibadabables post. You are not on your own, you have CAG behind you. Have a look at posts by ReaUK and estellyn, you'll see how, with the help and advice of CAG, people who are in a real hole, can win and live on and then give good advice to others. I wish you all the best with your case. Help me out, please put the stanley knife back in your toolbox, If you feel that way just post on CAG instead, you have a lot of friends here to help you.

my best

pitcher

Edited April 3, 2013 by pitcher