Scammed by National company...help please

[kc_31]

Hi,

 

I took my car in for an MOT recently. To cut a long story short, they split one of the water pipes during the MOT and charged me £18 to replace it. I argued that they had broken it so I shouldn't have to pay for it. They instantly changed their story, saying it wasn't their fault and it could have happened at any time. I reluctantly agreed to pay for the new pipe. Then they said I would need anti-freeze, costing £25 . I got the car back the following day having paid them an unbelievable £588 only to find that the car had no water in and definitely no anti-freeze . I filled the car up with water but the next day when I drove it, it over-heated. A guy from the breakdown service came out and told me the head gasket is knackered. He thinks the garage have replaced the split pipe with one that is too narrow, hence not enough water getting through to engine!

 

I have spoken to vosa - not interested as it is not the actual MOT test that's the problem. Have also spoken to trading standards, who advised me to go to another garage and get them to write a report. If the report shows that the garage are at fault, I am to send them a letter (they sent me a template).

 

Has anyone dealt with this sort of thing before?? My local garage say they will do the report but it will cost around £40, does that sound reasonable?

 

I need to know whether I am going about this the right way and what my next step should be.

 

Thanks.

[barracad]

The advice from Trading Standards seems spot on - you are going to need some kind of independent evidence to prove they are at fault.

 

If the garage is reputable then £40 sounds reasonable to me - remember that you are asking them to inspect your car thoroughly and then write out a report - this will be taking up time which they could be using to work on other jobs, so I think £40 sounds fair.

 

Make sure you claim the £40 back too if they are proved to be at fault.

[kc_31]

Thanks for that, I'll get it booked in.

[kc_31]

Update time!!

 

I have taken my Rover to my local garage to have the report done.

The chap who looked at it is Rover trained and worked solely on Rovers for 15 years, so I think it's safe to say he knows what he's talking about.

 

He says they didn't bleed the air out of the engine when they re-filled it. He showed me a small nut which apparently has to be undone in order to bleed it properly. The nut in question is caked in enough grease and dirt to make it obvious (even to a female novice like me) that it has not seen a spanner in quite some time.

 

I have spoken to the area manager of the garage who did the M.O.T and he wants to get another report done. Before their incompetent mechanics get within 20 miles of my car again, I plan on taking a couple of close up photgraphs of the nut as evidence in case they mess around with it during their inspection.

 

Does anyone happen to know what would happen if their report states that it wasn't their fault that the head gasket blew? Where would I stand then?

 

Many thanks.

[kc_31]

Also, where do I stand as far as asking them to supply me with a courtesy car in the mean time and possible compensation. The total bill for repairing the car will be around £500. Add that to the amount I paid the garage when the MOT was done and it's a total of almost £1100 (more than my poor car is worth).

 

Thanks again.

[rogerebaker]

worth asking.

 

You could inform them that if they wont supply a car you will be hiring one and adding it to the bill.

[miniconverter]

Be very careful if your rover is fitted with a K-series 16 valve engine as these are incredibly prone to head gasket failure. I am surprised the rover mechanic with 15 years of rover experience didn't mention this as they are a standing joke in the motor trade.

 

I would think the garage that did the original work would have no problem finding somebody suitably qualified that would confirm this and that the hose split due to the cooling system pressurising because of a failed head gasket. Is the rover mechanic a member of the institute of the motor industry if he is he will have put something like AMIMI or FIMI after is signature on the report.

 

Also would he be prepared to appear in court as there are plenty of independent engineers with the appropriate qualifications that the repairing garage will know about that will.

 

Sorry to put a dampener on this but I have been in the motor trade for about 30 years and have been to court on numerous occasions and have never been on the losing side yet but wouldn't fancy my chances if they get an expert witness.

[teethgrinder]

The rover K-series is as prone to HGF (head Gasket Failure) as any other make of engine (just remember the PSA 1.9 XUD9TE). If the cooling system is not bled properly after re-filling, the coolant boils, and the resultant cavitiaiton causes 'hotspots' in the engine block and cylinder head. This then warps the head, causing HGF. Another reason for failure can be using water, instead of water/anti-freeze in the correct ratio.

 

There's plenty of people here...MG-Rover.org Forums - Powered by vBulletin who can help.

 

I have had a Renault Megane with HGF after the bleed screw leaked (cost me £190 all in), and therefore sucked in air after cooling, and also a K-series HGF on a 416i the day after I bought it when a clip rubbed through a hose (free, though it took the garage 3 weeks to get it back to me...did lend me a 420 in the meantime)

 

Please don't be put off by the Rover K-series...it is one of the best engines around if looked after, and was way ahead of it's time when it came out (and still is compared to some. My 414 has a 1.4 litre K16 and puts out 104 bhp!).

 

Robin

[kc_31]

Hi guys,

 

thanks for all your help.

 

Miniconverter, when I asked this guy to look at my car and do the report I have to say he was skeptical because Rovers are prone to head gasket failure. He didn't think it was their fault, just one of those things. However, once he had looked at the car he said there was no doubt as to what was wrong with it.

As for the original garage finding someone suitably qualified, I'm afraid I don't trust them. All their staff are qualified, yet when I took my car to them it was running fine and has always been a fantastic car since I bought it. Since they touched it I have only been able to drive it once, it's been off the road since! Need I say more??

 

Since my last post, the area manager has spoken to the guy who did the report for me. He then called me back saying he had spoken to their legal department and they do NOT admit liability, they do NOT think it is their fault. But as a gesture of good will (because I put a bad review about them on the internet and the area manager came across it) they are prepared to have the head gasket skimmed and pressure tested. He would then like me to change my review or add to it.

 

To be honest I don't trust them to come near my beloved car again but don't really have much choice, if I turn down their offer it will cost me £350 on top of the £150 I already have to pay to replace the radiator and re-cut the valves.

 

Anyway, thanks again for everyone's help.

[kc_31]

Am I OK to name the garage on here? It's difficult to explain everything without using names!

[teethgrinder]

Are they the national company beginning with K or N? Up here, neither have the inclination to do engine work, so would probably pass it on to someone else. Some of the places I have been little more than (mildly) glorified fitters of parts.

 

A classic kwikfit ploy is to use different flanges on exhaust fittings to everyone else. When you need a new part, you need to buy all the rest of the parts as they don't fit the parts on the car already.

 

I try to do most work on my cars myself, but use independets as much as possible.

 

Robin

[miniconverter]

I understand what you are saying when the guy at the Rover garage says it was there fault because the system had not been bleed properly, but if they get a switched on independent engineer he will argue that the hose which failed originally was because the system was pressurising due to head gasket failure.

 

I currently have a transit diesel in bits because the head gasket failed the driver carried on driving and this has split the top hose due to the system pressurising. Now you would think that the pressure wouldn't get that high due to the pressure cap releasing it but I have seen this happen many times including a Rover 216 about three weeks ago this split the heater hose when the head gasket failed.

 

At the end of the day its up to you to decide if you are going to accept there offer or not but I think it would be very difficult to prove that the head gasket wasn't faulty when you left the car with them.

[miniconverter]

I understand what you are saying when the guy at the Rover garage says it was there fault because the system had not been bleed properly, but if they get a switched on independent engineer he will argue that the hose which failed originally was because the system was pressurising due to head gasket failure.

 

I currently have a transit diesel in bits because the head gasket failed the driver carried on driving and this has split the top hose due to the system pressurising. Now you would think that the pressure wouldn't get that high due to the pressure cap releasing it but I have seen this happen many times including a Rover 216 about three weeks ago this split the heater hose when the head gasket failed.

 

At the end of the day its up to you to decide if you are going to accept there offer or not but I think it would be very difficult to prove that the head gasket wasn't faulty when you left the car with them.

[kc_31]

Hi again,

 

The company is Nationwide Autocentres. Sorry if I'm not supposed to mention them!

 

Anyway, they collected the car yesterday so we'll see how it runs when it comes back. I also found out on Friday that they road tested my car the day they did the MOT - why the heck did they do thet???!!!

[miniconverter]

Ask them for an answer as to why they toke your car on the road during an MOT as this is not part of the MOT and if that is all the car was in for they have no reason or need to take it on the road unless that is they used it to fetch the sandwiches

[kc_31]

My thoughts exactly!!

[teethgrinder]

I'll bet they ragged it to McDonalds or something whilst the engine was cold. The K-series is not a fan of being ragged until warm.

 

Robin

[mnrbig]

As they are AA accredited service centres, I would complain to the AA about the shoddy work.

[kc_31]

Great, I didn't think of that. Thanks mnrbig.

 

Teethgrinder, I think you may be right!

 

I will let you all know how I get on with the AA.

[joe5]

Can i just ask you why you had to pay £588 for an MOT, coolant hose and anti freeze.

The MOT is only £40ish, the hose would be £20ish and the Anti Freeze as you have stated is £25, it would take less than an hour to fit a hose refill with anti freeze and then bleed the system once the engine was warmed up.

Did you have a lot of work done to get the car through the MOT besides the hose and anti freeze, if you did was that work properly carried out ?

[kc_31]

Hi Joe,

They also replaced 2 brake pipes and pads and discs.

[syrill-sneer]

Hi Joe,

They also replaced 2 brake pipes and pads and discs.

 

That would be why they needed to road test the car afterwards than.

[meggyweggy]

Thats still very expensive for replacing all that, i have a BMW and it was only £200 to have full set of disks and pads for front and back

[syrill-sneer]

Thats still very expensive for replacing all that, i have a BMW and it was only £200 to have full set of disks and pads for front and back

 

Agreed, sounds pretty expensive, but without knowing which brake pipes were replaced its hard to tell. If they replaced the front to rear metal brake pipes than there could be a fair bit of labour involved. A break down of costs would be ideal.

[kc_31]

I have the invoice wilth a full break-down of costs. I forgot to mention they also replaced the mid and rear sections of the exhaust. The most expensive thing was the rear metal brake pipes which cost £120.