Third Party Liability Dispute on Car Accident - Urgent Advice Please!

[The_UK_Pete]

Hi all,

 

New to the forum but really need some guidance if possible so thanks in advance.

 

I had a car accident in May this year. I was travelling down a dual carriageway on my way to the station on my normal daily route one morning. As I drove through a set of green traffic lights ahead there was a private recyling truck making an illegal left turn. In order to make the turn he had to swerve out into the overtaking lane and back across lane 1 in order to make the tight turn, effectively blocking off both lanes of the dual carriageway ahead leaving me nowhere to go. I slammed on the brakes and swerved to avoid the truck mounting the curb and hitting a road sign on a little traffic island just ahead of the turning the truck went down. The driver did not stop but carried on with his journey.

 

I got out to inspect the damage (smashed nearside bumper, headlight and front wing) and simultaneously the truck re-appeared at the same time as a police car coming from different directions. The only route for the truck driver to carry on with his journey was back past the scene of the accident which was co-incidentally right near my local police station. I flagged down the traffic police car and advised him that the truck had caused the accident. He pulled him over further down the road and then came back and collected me.

 

I was present when he asked the driver what happened and he admitted to the turn but advised he was not aware it was illegal to turn there and the police officer informed him that it is not a legal turn there and that as such I would be claiming off of his insurance. He was reluctant to give his personal details but the officer reminded of his obligations. We exchanged details and shook hands.

 

Subseuqent to all of this I have had to pay my £410 excess, take a day and half annual leave to sort everything out, a taxi or 2 but no major expenses beyond this. The third party insurer supplied a copy of the 1 page drivers report which is missing loads of information and just accuses me of speeding. I subsequently submitted a 10 page account of the events including photos of the scene including the "no left turn" sign etc. The third party insurer has not denied liability as such but they are simply not giving any response on things and just using delay tactics etc.

 

It's now reached the point where my insurer is referring to their solicitors (under my legal expenses cover) but advises me they suspect they will advise there is no case to take to court because I did not hit the third party. Assuming this is the outcome, what are my rights? Surely me avoiding hitting the third party truck to avoid more extensive damage and risk of serious injury to myself should not be a good reason for them to get away with incurring the liability for causing this accident.

 

Unfortunately there are no witnesses and the only other person who could give any account would be the police officer who no doubt would have no decent recollection of what was said at the time anyway. I could explore the CCTV avenue as I guess ultimately you're almost always on CCTV somewhere especially in a busy town centre.

 

I'm at a bit of an impass though. If the solicitor says there is no case, what can I do beyond raising a formal complaint with my insurer and escalating to the Financial Ombudsman Service? Surely I shouldn't need to take my own legal action through the small claims court if I have legal expenses cover.

 

Any advice you can offer is much appreciated.

 

Thanks

 

Pete

[BankFodder]

The advice you are receiving is nonsense.

If the accient was caused by the lorry driver, then that's it. There is no need to hit him. He is responsible for any damage which he causes by his poor driving.

Did you get the police's collar number?

[The_UK_Pete]

No but I have the police incident number as the officer wrote it down when he did all the exchange of details between myself and the third party.

Edited September 5, 2012 by The_UK_Pete

[The_UK_Pete]

I should clarify that the insurers are saying that they won't pursue legal action if their lawyers don't think there is a case.

[unclebulgaria67]

The way I see this. No police report and no independent witnesses = your Insurers would have good reason not to pursue on the basis that they are not guaranteed on the balance of probability to win, if this was to go to court. The chances are that it could be decided as a 50/50, so you would only get 50% of your excess and costs back. The reason I say this, is that you will talk about the no left turn and they will say that you were speeding and/or not driving with due care and attention i.e you could have avoided the accident.

 

So wait to see what progress your Insurers make and be prepared for it to be decided as a 50/50. If you are adamant that you were not at fault at all and your Insurers won't puruse, then take the third party to court. But do warn your Insurers of this, as there could be consequences.

[Ganymede]

Hi,

 

Can you just clarify a few things for us please.

 

You say that there were two lanes, were you both in the offside (right hand) lane.

 

Did the truck indicated or brake prior to turning left?

 

What was the speed limit and how fast were you going?

 

How far away from the truck were you when it made the left turn?

 

Many thanks.

[Mwynci]

I agree with UB67, a solicitor won't give it more than a 50% success rate and doesn't hold reasonable prospects.

The OP alleges the tp went into their lane, they took evasive action, the tp will just states they turned, the op was travelling fast, paniced and swerved. Hence the liability dispute.

Pete, there is the possibility you could run this to court yourself if your insurers won't go with it, as the tp has no damage there is minimal risk to you.

[The_UK_Pete]

Hi,

 

Can you just clarify a few things for us please.

 

You say that there were two lanes, were you both in the offside (right hand) lane.

 

Did the truck indicated or brake prior to turning left?

 

What was the speed limit and how fast were you going?

 

How far away from the truck were you when it made the left turn?

 

Many thanks.

 

I was in lane 1 near side by the time I saw the truck (the road is on an ever so slight bend) I was about 15 - 20 metres behind travelling at approximately 40 mph (the speed limit) and he was already pulling across from lane 2 across lane 1 blocking the path of both lanes. There is a road layout that means you have to travel a further 300 yards down the road, go around a roundabout and wait at the traffic lights in the opposite direction to make the turn legally. He just ignored that and decided to turn across my lane from lane 2 leaving me nowhere to go. If he hadn't made the illegal turn and had followed the correct road layout then I would not have crashed. To me it's a simple as that.

[The_UK_Pete]

I agree with UB67, a solicitor won't give it more than a 50% success rate and doesn't hold reasonable prospects.

The OP alleges the tp went into their lane, they took evasive action, the tp will just states they turned, the op was travelling fast, paniced and swerved. Hence the liability dispute.

Pete, there is the possibility you could run this to court yourself if your insurers won't go with it, as the tp has no damage there is minimal risk to you.

 

Again my argument is that the turn was illegal. Nobody has disputed that an illegal turn has been made at this junction at any point since the police officer informed the driver as such (although this was conveniently left out of the TP's report).

 

It is my belief that the TP driver knew full well there is no left turn there and was simply short cutting to save a few minutes on his collection route. He either didn't check his mirrors properly before turning or I wasn't clearly visible when he made the turn.

 

This aside in my eyes the point remains that if he hadn't been making the illegal turn I wouldn't have had to take evasive action at any speed they accuse me of doing.

 

So if I wanted to take my own court action through the small claims court. What is the process? Do I need legal council or can I issue proceedings myself?

[Ganymede]

Any chance of you providing the location so we can check it out on Google maps please?

[unclebulgaria67]

Again my argument is that the turn was illegal. Nobody has disputed that an illegal turn has been made at this junction at any point since the police officer informed the driver as such (although this was conveniently left out of the TP's report).

 

It is my belief that the TP driver knew full well there is no left turn there and was simply short cutting to save a few minutes on his collection route. He either didn't check his mirrors properly before turning or I wasn't clearly visible when he made the turn.

 

This aside in my eyes the point remains that if he hadn't been making the illegal turn I wouldn't have had to take evasive action at any speed they accuse me of doing.

 

So if I wanted to take my own court action through the small claims court. What is the process? Do I need legal council or can I issue proceedings myself?

 

If you want to issue the claim, you can do this online. https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/web/mcol/welcome

 

Just make sure that you issue the claim against the right parties and with the correct information.

 

Before you can issue the claim, I believe that you have to follow pre action protocols. You need to enter into correspondence and try to resolve this with them. I believe that 3 months has to pass without resolution before you can issue the claim. As your action will be a continuation of what the Insurers have been doing, perhaps ask them for a copy of their paperwork. Also before you issue the court claim, you have to send them a letter before action giving them 21 days notice that you will be issuing the claim.

 

Ganymede is more versed in these matters, so he will correct me if I am wrong in any respect.

[Ganymede]

If you want to issue the claim, you can do this online. https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/web/mcol/welcome

 

Just make sure that you issue the claim against the right parties and with the correct information.

 

Before you can issue the claim, I believe that you have to follow pre action protocols. You need to enter into correspondence and try to resolve this with them. I believe that 3 months has to pass without resolution before you can issue the claim. As your action will be a continuation of what the Insurers have been doing, perhaps ask them for a copy of their paperwork. Also before you issue the court claim, you have to send them a letter before action giving them 21 days notice that you will be issuing the claim.

 

Ganymede is more versed in these matters, so he will correct me if I am wrong in any respect.

 

 

Hi,

 

The pre action protocol will apply if there is a personal injury claim, so a Letter of Claim will need to be sent giving 21 days to acknowledge and then the Defendant gets 3 months to investigate the claim.

 

I would NOT recommend that the OP goes alone with a personal injury claim as it is far to complicated for a lay person, however I can't see from the OP that there is a personal injury claim...

[Nimrod205]

Playing devil's advocate here (in my capacity as a driving instructor) and just to make sure I have my facts straight:

 

1. You say you were driving on a dual carriageway. i.e. There were no sharp bends to prevent you seeing the recycling truck in reasonable time.

2. You were travelling at the speed limit of 40 mph and by the time "you saw the truck", you were 15 - 20 metres from him.

 

Why was it that you only saw him at a point that made it impossible to stop in time?

 

The Highway code states that you need 36 metres to stop at a speed of 40 mph so either you were distracted by something else or you were driving too close to him to start with. Remember also that the truck would have needed to initially slow down to effect the sharp left hand turn and was probably showing brake lights.

 

You can be sure that these arguments will be used in any claim dispute.