mortgage shortfall 9 yrs old

[Xdieseldogx]

hi just a quick query i had a mortgage with gmac-rfc the house was repossessed in 2003 the shortfall was 32k as i understand it the debt has been sold to a dc i have not acknowledged debt my questions are.

1; is this debt now unsecured?

2; is it enforceable if it is unsecured?

3; can i send off a cca or sb letter?

4; can they put a judgement against me or nick money from my wages ?

 

its taken me yrs to get back on track and i dont want this messing it all up.

 

thankyou for your help any advice would be appreciated

[rebel11]

Hi xd

 

Welcome to CAG

 

The guys will be happy to advise as soon as they are available.

 

Please let us know how your problem has been resolved, it could help fellow Caggers.

 

Thread has been moved to the correct forum.

[boyfalldown]

don't take this as gospel. Mortgage debts become SB after 12 years so don't send an SB, but the council of mortgage lenders has stated they won't take enforcement action unless they start it before a debt is 6 years old. I wouldn't of thought they'd be able to get a CCJ (may be wrong though)

[unclebulgaria67]

If you have been chased for the debt within 6 years of it being incurred and are still be chased, then they have 12 years to try to collect on the debt, taking any form of enforcement action they think is appropriate. So not statute barred.

 

There is a specific letter you can send to request information and I will see if i can find it to post it.

[unclebulgaria67]

This is from the CML (council for mortgage lenders)

 

 

What will the lender do if there is a shortfall debt?

 

If there is a shortfall, your lender will contact you as soon as possible after the sale of the property telling you that there is a shortfall debt. They will also let you know that the shortfall debt may be pursued by another company.

If interest is being charged on the shortfall debt, your lender will send you regular, written financial statements which will update you on how much you owe. It is important that you keep your lender informed of your new address after you leave the property so that you receive these statements.

The action that your lender takes will depend on the circumstances. A lender may or may not wish to seek repayment of the shortfall debt, but if they do they must notify you within six years.

How long after the repossession can lenders seek the recovery of the debt?

 

In England, Wales and Northern Ireland, a lender legally has 12 years to contact you to begin the process of seeking repayment of a shortfall debt; this period is usually 5 years in Scotland.

 

However, lenders are committed to fair and sympathetic treatment of people who have suffered repossession, and accept that individuals should not face long delays before being contacted to discuss repaying the shortfall. Most lenders will contact you fairly soon after possession to try to agree to a manageable arrangement for repaying all or some of the debt.

 

Lenders who are members of the Council of mortgage Lenders voluntarily agreed from 11 February 2000 to begin all recovery action for a shortfall within six years of the sale of a repossessed property. If your property was taken into possession and sold more than six years ago, and you have not been contacted by your lender to recover any outstanding debt, you will not now be asked to pay the shortfall. In Scotland, lenders will begin recovery action within five years.

Does this time limit apply to every case?

 

The new time limit will not affect you if -

• you are already adhering to alternative payment arrangements for the shortfall debt;
  
• or, you have already been contacted by your lender, even if the initial contact was made by the lender after six years from the date of the sale of the property in possession.
  

The six year limit only refers to beginning recovery action and does not affect a lender's ability to recover the shortfall debt over a longer period. If there is evidence of mortgage fraud, the time limit will not apply.

 

After a repossessed property is sold, lenders can often find it difficult to contact former borrowers to advise them of any surplus monies or shortfall debt. If this is the case, your lender will use a variety of measures to identify where you are now living. This might include using tracing agents. If your lender or its third party agent are trying to contact you (for example, by letter or telephone) to discuss repayment of the shortfall, but you choose to ignore such contact (despite the fact that the contact is being made at your new address) then your lender will consider that contact has been made within the six year limit. If you are unclear whether contact has been made within the six year period your lender will be able to tell you.

[Xdieseldogx]

Thankyou for your speedy replys I have had no contact for 9 yrs until now from a dc claiming I owe them 32k can I then just send them the letter from the cml as I believe my oc is a member

[unclebulgaria67]

These are the FSA rules

 

http://fsahandbook.info/FSA/html/handbook/MCOB/13/5

[Xdieseldogx]

Sorry if I do send of letter from cml and they ignore that and start playing hardball where do I stand can I tell them to jog on or do I need to pay it?

[unclebulgaria67]

This is the type of letter sent previously to the debt collection agents. It might also be worth sending the mortgage company a Data Protection Subject Access Request.

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Thank you for your letter concerning the above account.

I do not acknowledge any alleged debt to you, your agents or any third parties.

 

Please supply me with a full Breakdown of the balance claimed under the above account.

 

In order for me to deal with the matters you raised, I should be grateful if you would supply me with answers to the following points;

 

1) When did the arrears begin?

2)When was the last payment made on the account?

3)On what date was the Possession Order given?

4)On what date was the house sold?

5)What valuations were made on the property after repossession and at time of sale?

6) What costs were involved in maintaining the property during the period between the repossession and the sale?

7) Which Estate agents marketed the property?

8) How was the house marketed and sold and at what price?

9) What costs were involved in selling the property?

10) Has a claim been made against the indemnity insurance and how much was recovered?

11) How has interest been calculated from the start of the arrears?

 

I look forward to receiving your reply as soon as possible.

[Xdieseldogx]

Thankyou again

[unclebulgaria67]

Thankyou for your speedy replys I have had no contact for 9 yrs until now from a dc claiming I owe them 32k can I then just send them the letter from the cml as I believe my oc is a member

 

I think you are misunderstanding the CML rule about conduct within 6 years. This is not whether you were contacted, but can the creditor (mortgage company) show evidence that they have tried to make contact within 6 years of the debt occurring. So if they provide copies of letters sent by them or their debt collectors, then that may be seen as sufficient. Depends on where they sent the letters and was it to an address where you were living or could be contacted at the time. This is why you really need to find out what is on your file at the mortgage company, by making a Subject Access Request to the mortgage company for everything they hold. Costs £10 admin fee to make the request, but well worth it.

[unclebulgaria67]

Sorry if I do send of letter from cml and they ignore that and start playing hardball where do I stand can I tell them to jog on or do I need to pay it?

 

Unless there is urgent need to deal with the debt company because they are saying that they will be taking enforcement action, then ignore them.

 

At this time, just send off a Subject Access Request to the mortgage companies Head Office, addressed to their compliance manager, with the £10 fee required in the form of cheque or postal order. Ask for everything they hold in regard to the account, including system records, statements of account and copies of any letters issued or received.

[Xdieseldogx]

Thankyou I will do that just for curiosity, there would have been no way on this earth they would have known where I was living for the past 9 yrs so they couldn't send me letters I haven't been on electoral roll and for 4 of the yrs I was out of the country. Anyway thankyou for your help ppl like you are a god send

[DBY]

Hi xdieseldogs,

 

please let me know how you get on with this - im in a very similar situation.

[Xdieseldogx]

Hi DBY I will keep you posted I had several letters from dca saying they wanted there money £32k I wrote back to them asking for prove that they own the debt also everything that is written aboveby unclebulgaria I also reminded them of the cml which is 6 years. I haven't heard anything since. They will have there work cut out out to get me to pay anything lol I will keep you updated.

[DBY]

Hi DBY I will keep you posted I had several letters from dca saying they wanted there money £32k I wrote back to them asking for prove that they own the debt also everything that is written aboveby unclebulgaria I also reminded them of the cml which is 6 years. I haven't heard anything since. They will have there work cut out out to get me to pay anything lol I will keep you updated.

 

Any update?

[Xdieseldogx]

Any update?

 

Hi know updates I have heard nothing since I sent letters off, I've applied for credit and been excepted so progress!! Hopefully they will go away now as nearing 10 yrs now if I hear anything I will post again.

[DBY]

Hokey dokey - will wait for an update!!!!

[oldgirl]

Just about twelve years now and we are still being pursued for a shortfall, they did go quiet for a while so don't be fooled, we have also been accepted for credit with no problems, hope everything works out for you.

[Xdieseldogx]

I still haven't heard nothing from dca however I have received my sar request back from oc. It says they had written the shortfall off in 2005 as I had no assets. So why are dcas chasing for debt?

[unclebulgaria67]

I still haven't heard nothing from dca however I have received my sar request back from oc. It says they had written the shortfall off in 2005 as I had no assets. So why are dcas chasing for debt?

 

Because your debt is a saleable asset. What happens with a mortgage shortfall debt as far as I know is that they write it off, if they can't make a recovery within a certain period of time. They then make a claim against some form of loss Insurance, but this is done in bulk and not per mortgage debt. Part of the Insurance arrangement, is that the mortgage company have to make an effort to seek a recovery and will minimise the amount of claim made on the Insurance, by realising any value the debt may have.

 

Who is currently listed on recent DCA correspondence as owning the debt ?

 

Has the SAR info revealed what attempts the mortgage company have made to contact you ?

 

When was the last payment or acknowledgement in writing from you regarding the debt ?

 

Go through the SAR information and if it is not complete, write to the compliance manager at the mortgage company, asking for the missing information. The idea of an SAR, is that they send you everything they hold.