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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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N1 Claim Form received for old Welcome Finance debt


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What do you remember about this loan?

Do you have any paperwork?

Did you sign an agreement and if yes, did it comply with the requirements of CCA 1974?

Did you receive a default notice?

Did you receive statements about the account?

 

Look at the information you do have and formulate a response based on that.

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As your agreement was made before 6 April 2007, if there were any defects with it, then the court has no power to enforce.

 

Apart from the NoA issue, Default Notice and breach of s 67, there are also the possible defects mentioned:

 

- credit misstated as it included charges for credit;

- failure to give notice of cancellation rights;

- defect in notice of cancellation rights;

 

Did you have PPI by the way?

 

I just checked and see that the date of the claim was the 14th May so you have until next week to formulate a defence so there is no need to panic just yet.

 

I would call the solicitors and ask them if they received your CPR 31.14 request? Also, whether they would consent to an extension for the defence to be filed by "28 days" (CPR 15.5) whilst they respond to your CPR 31.14 request.

 

Advise them that the alternative is an application to be made which would deal with disclosure AND the extension of time and that because they did not comply with pre-action protocol in terms of divulging all the paper work required for the claim, there may be an adverse costs order against them.

 

If they do agree to the extension, ask them to email you their agreement and to send it via snail mail as well.

 

Also state that if you do not get the email by tomorrow 12:00pm, you will be filing an application for their compliance.

 

I am not going to be back online until this evening so if you get stuck, there are enough knowledgeable people here to help you through however right now, you should be contacting the solicitors and making sure they are aware of their obligations.

 

Ps. Forgot to add that the defences mentioned previously may or may not suit your circumstances. It all depends on what you remember, what paperwork you have in your possession and the paper work received from the claimaint, if any.

Edited by hmmh1978
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you REALLY must get an sar off to welcome

 

you dont state how much they are after

 

but if yu have PPI or any ins back to the sart in 2005

it'll porb be worth £1000's along with all their PENALTY charges.

 

have you the agreement still?

 

and what was the loan type?

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Thank you for the advice dx

 

you REALLY must get an sar off to welcome

Ok, I can do that, was just worried with it taking up to 2 months to be dealt with that it wouldn't help in my timeframe, if the information arrives after my 28 days are up (early next week) what do I do then?

 

you dont state how much they are after

Ah sorry, the amount was hidden away in post 4, it is around £2700

 

but if yu have PPI or any ins back to the sart in 2005

it'll porb be worth £1000's along with all their PENALTY charges.

I did have ppi, I was told they wouldn't give me the loan without it at the time. The loan was £2000ish and the insurance was £400ish

 

have you the agreement still?

Yes

 

and what was the loan type?

It was a personal loan

 

dx

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Thank you for the advice hmmh,

 

As your agreement was made before 6 April 2007, if there were any defects with it, then the court has no power to enforce.

Not sure how I can check for defects, I have the original sat here infront of me, any advice on checking this?

 

Apart from the NoA issue, Default Notice and breach of s 67, there are also the possible defects mentioned:

 

- credit misstated as it included charges for credit;

- failure to give notice of cancellation rights;

- defect in notice of cancellation rights;

Ok, that all sounds interesting.

 

Did you have PPI by the way?

Yes

 

I just checked and see that the date of the claim was the 14th May so you have until next week to formulate a defence so there is no need to panic just yet.

I think it works out as this Saturday if we don't include bank holidays/jubilee etc, and next week if we do.

 

I would call the solicitors and ask them if they received your CPR 31.14 request? Also, whether they would consent to an extension for the defence to be filed by "28 days" (CPR 15.5) whilst they respond to your CPR 31.14 request.

 

Advise them that the alternative is an application to be made which would deal with disclosure AND the extension of time and that because they did not comply with pre-action protocol in terms of divulging all the paper work required for the claim, there may be an adverse costs order against them.

 

If they do agree to the extension, ask them to email you their agreement and to send it via snail mail as well.

 

Also state that if you do not get the email by tomorrow 12:00pm, you will be filing an application for their compliance.

 

The problem is that the solicitors listed on the claim form aren't really solicitors at all, but rather an in house department for IND, the chasing DCA. So when you call the phone number on the claim form for the solicitors you get IND answering and not offering any help.

 

I am not going to be back online until this evening so if you get stuck, there are enough knowledgeable people here to help you through however right now, you should be contacting the solicitors and making sure they are aware of their obligations.

 

Ps. Forgot to add that the defences mentioned previously may or may not suit your circumstances. It all depends on what you remember, what paperwork you have in your possession and the paper work received from the claimaint, if any.

Ok, thanks for that. I remember pretty much everything I'd say, I have all of the paperwork, from agreement to ppi insurance pack, only paperwork IND have ever sent me was the letter 2 weeks before the claim notice arrived.

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can you scan up the agreement please

and i'll see what i can do with a PPI spready for you.

 

 

scan the required letters/agreements/sheets - as a picture[jpg] file

don't forget you can use a mobile phone or a digital camera too!!

.

ENSURE: remove all pers info inc barcodes etc using paint program

but leave all figures and dates.

.

goto one of the many free online pdf converter websites

it would be better to upload a multipage pdf if

you have many images too rather than many single pdfs

.

or if you have PDF as an installed printer drive use that

or use word and save as pdf

.

open a new msg box here

hit go advanced below the msg box

hit manage attachments below that box

hit the add files button on the top right

hit select files, navigate to your file on your pc

hit upload files

.

.

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Ok, done. Hopefully this is good enough to be useful. If any areas need more detail I can provide that.

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]35840[/ATTACH]

 

Should also point out that it appears the credit agreement was never infact signed by either myself or welcome. Not sure if this changes anything.

Edited by Fars
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is this the ONLY loan you ever had ?

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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How did you make application on this loan FARs? The lack of signatures and execution could signify a reconstituted version?

 

Andy

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I called up the local office and applied over the phone as far as I remember. They sent me the documents and then a few days later the loan was in my bank account.

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I called up the local office and applied over the phone as far as I remember. They sent me the documents and then a few days later the loan was in my bank account.

 

Original agreement or by a section 77 request?

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All of my documentation is original from 2005. So original agreement.

 

Section 77 request I sent off on 22/05/2012 is still unanswered.

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Have you retained the original Default Notice might as well check that out also?

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Still not entirely sure what a default notice is. I'm assuming it is the letter I received on 26/04/2012 saying last letter before legal proceedings.

 

If that is it, the only information it has is an account statement saying the amount and an odd date of 02/12/2011 as the default date.

 

edit/

 

Ah just reread your post Andy. No I don't have an original default notice from welcome or anyone prior to IND taking over this debt, I have kept every other document i've recieved but don't appear to have that. So I am assuming it was never received.

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The DN would have been issued in 2006 when you agreed a payment plan of £1pm.

 

There is no reference to it in the P.O.C no default date no agreement date.

 

 

"The Claimant claims for sums due under a/various Credit Agreement(s) related only to money regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974 entered into between the Claimant and the Defendant. The agreement(s) was/were terminated upon the Defendant failure to comply with the terms of Agreement(s). The Claimant complied with Section III and IV and Annex B of the PD Pre-Action Conduct. And the Claimant Claims: Personal Loan Account number XXXXXXXX balance of 2.700 as of 2/12/11. interest under the s69 of the county court Act 1984 at the rate of 8% a year from 2/12/11 to 10/5/12 of 94 and also interest at the same rate up to the date of judgement or earlier payment at a daily rate of 0.59 AND Costs"

We could do with some help from you.

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Well it cant be validated or sure if one was ever issued.To commence legal proceedings a DN must be issued.They have not even proved that they are the legal owner yet by way of assignment.

Perhaps wait until hmmh is on line to offer further advice but from what I see its impossible to draft a partularised defence based on the claimants pleadings.

 

Also impossible to agree extension CPR 15.5 with an answerphone.

We could do with some help from you.

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Ok, thanks for the clarification Andy.

 

I'm guessing when they purchased this debt from Welcome I should have received notification, which would have been the assignment.

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Lets refute the P.o.C as it stands:-

 

 

"The Claimant claims for sums due under a/various Credit Agreement(s)

What agreement/s they have failed to respond to your section 77 request and therefore will shortly be in default

 

related only to money regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974 entered into between the Claimant and the Defendant.

Not true you have never entered into an agreement with the Claimant and they have yet to disclose a valid NoA.

 

The agreement(s) was/were terminated upon the Defendant failure to comply with the terms of Agreement(s)

.When, what date what was the breach?Proof that a DN was issued and subsequent Arrears Notices issued since?

 

The Claimant complied with Section III and IV and Annex B of the PD Pre-Action Conduct.

How in what way A LBA dated 26th April 2012?

 

And the Claimant Claims: Personal Loan Account number XXXXXXXX balance of 2.700 as of 2/12/11. interest under the s69 of the county court Act 1984 at the rate of 8% a year from

2/12/11 to 10/5/12 this is the assignment date?

 

of 94 and also interest at the same rate up to the date of judgement or earlier payment at a daily rate of 0.59 AND Costs"

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHER

 

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ta

 

153.21*24=3677.04

 

total for PPI = 684.34

total for loan=3677.04

 

total for PPI /Total for loan * 100 = 18.6%

 

18.6% of £153.21 = £28.52 PPI PCM

 

think this is correct:

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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we need those PENALTY charges too, bet they owe YOU!!

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Share on other sites

we need those PENALTY charges too, bet they owe YOU!!

 

dx

 

 

Absolutely DX time permitting.

 

Andy

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHER

 

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group - The National Consumer Service

If you want advice on your Topic please PM me a link to your thread

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we need those PENALTY charges too, bet they owe YOU!!

 

dx

 

I'm assuming the only way to get that information is with a SAR to Welcome though?

 

 

 

ta

 

153.21*24=3677.04

 

total for PPI = 684.34

total for loan=3677.04

 

total for PPI /Total for loan * 100 = 18.6%

 

18.6% of £153.21 = £28.52 PPI PCM

 

think this is correct:

 

 

 

we need those PENALTY charges too, bet they owe YOU!!

 

dx

 

Thanks for looking at the numbers dx, this side of things confuses me further however.

 

If the loan was £2000, ppi £450 and they're asking for £2700 then isn't the maximum the amount could be reduced by £700 odd?

 

How could they owe me money if charges only make up around £250?

 

Sorry for all the questions, just finding this so difficult :(

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lets refute the p.o.c as it stands:-snip

 

Thank you very much for that Andy, this has really helped me understand what they are saying and what they actually have. Is there any benefit to entering a defence based upon these questions and statement in my own words?

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