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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
    • Thanks for all the suggestions so far I will amend original WS and send again for review.  While looking at my post at very beginning when I submitted photos of signs around the car park I noticed that it says 5 hours maximum stay while the signage sent by solicitor shows 4 hours maximum stay but mine is related to electric bay abuse not sure if this can be of any use in WS.
    • Not sure what to make of that or what it means for me, I was just about to head to my kip and it's a bit too late for legalise. When is the "expenditure occured"?  When they start spending money to write to me?  Or is this a bad thing (as "harsh" would imply)? When all is said and done, I do not have two beans to rub together, we rent our home and EVERYTHING of value has been purchased by and is in my wife's name and we are not financially linked in any way.  So at least if I can't escape my fate I can at least know that they will get sweet FA from me anyway   edit:  ah.. Sophia Harrison: Time bar decision tough on claimants WWW.SCOTTISHLEGAL.COM Time bar is a very complex area of law in Scotland relating to the period in which a claim for breach of duty can be pursued. The Scottish government...   This explains it like I am 5.  So, a good thing then because creditors clearly know they have suffered a loss the minute I stop paying them, this is why it is "harsh" (for them, not me)? Am I understanding this correctly?  
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Employment Tribunal - No ET3 Response


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I have an issue with an Employment Tribunal which has been running only a short time now.

 

The ET1 has been submitted.

 

The deadline for the ET3 has very recently passed and no response has been received. No request for an extension has been received either.

 

As I understand it, a Judge will now decide whether a default award is made.

 

My questions are:

 

1. Is the default awarded at the maximum level?

2. Is the Vento scale used for this award?

3. If an award to made by default and it is quite low what can I do to increase the award?

4. Do I need to put an 'Unless Order' forward to push things along?

5. What options would a solicitor have other than an 'Unless Order'?

6. Is there any guidelines as to what process a solicitor would follow as I am reluctant to leave the decision in the ET's hands?

7. What other orders are there that I could use?

8. Do I still need to produce a 'Schedule of Loss', 'Witness Statements', 'Mitigation Documents', etc in order that I receive the

best default award the Judge can offer?

9. Can I request a hearing to reinforce the default award?

 

Any help would be appreciated as I do not know what a solicitor would do next. I am not asking for legal advice here, merely what options do I have and what may a solicitor do from this point onwards.

 

Thank-you

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I would just wait for a while before getting too excited!

I am not a legal professional or adviser, I am however a Law Student and very well versed areas of Employment Law. Anything I write here is purely from my own experiences! If I help, then click the star to add to my reputation :)

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Wait for what exactly?

 

Could one expect that the ET to relax their rules and deadlines for the ET3 response?

 

Is it the ET's prerogative from here in as to how to proceed or does a Claimant have any clout at this step in the process?

Edited by middleman31
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I believe it is up to the Judge, firstly he will want an explanation of why they have not adhered to the tribunals timeline.

I am not a legal professional or adviser, I am however a Law Student and very well versed areas of Employment Law. Anything I write here is purely from my own experiences! If I help, then click the star to add to my reputation :)

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I would complete your schedule of loss, as the judge may want to see it, you wont need to have witness statements etc, as the judge will just take your side as the truth as there has been no defense from the respondent.

 

An employment judge can, if the response has not been submitted or has been submitted and not accepted, issue a default judgment to determine a claim without a hearing. Such judgments may determine not only who is at fault, but also any appropriate remedy such as compensation.

I am not a legal professional or adviser, I am however a Law Student and very well versed areas of Employment Law. Anything I write here is purely from my own experiences! If I help, then click the star to add to my reputation :)

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Thank-you for the explanation. Much appreciated.

 

In terms of default judgments.

 

How would the judge measure the award given if any?

Would this solely be based upon the Statement of Loss?

 

Would a judge be expected to jump upon this failure to respond rapidly or is this a slow turn of the wheel and just a waiting game?

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Hi middleman,

 

Well you have asked some specific questions and 'good' advice will be best given by an adviser who knows much more information about the background to this - for example why no defence was received - are they still trading?

 

Firstly, my advice would be that you get some tailored free F2F legal advice, can you get into a local law centre http://www.lawcentres.org.uk/lawcentres/detail/find/, or CAB. CLA used to offer eligible clients 2 hours of free employment advice which would be perfect help for the 'remedies' element of your claim 0845 345 4 345 - http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Dl1/Directories/UsefulContactsByCategory/Governmentcitizensandrightscontacts/DG_195356

 

Secondly, I reckon you want to apply for default judgement on liability to the ET ASAP as this may better 'lock in liability'. You should speak to the ET (just ring them) and ask them if they are issuing default judgement.

 

Unless the quantum in your claim was clear (unlikely on what you say above), then normal practice will be a separate Remedy's Hearing and the Respondent could present a defence (of quantum) there 'all guns blazing' - so whilst they may be liable, how much is unlikely to have been assessed yet.

 

Try and get some free F2F advice, and if your likely award is high (you mention VENTO), then it might even be worth paying for professionally help with your schedule of loss.

 

Hope this helps and best of luck.

 

Che

...................................................................... [FONT=Comic Sans MS]Please post on a thread before sending a PM. My opinion's are not expressed as agent or representative of The Consumer Action Group. Always seek professional advice from a qualified legal adviser before acting. If I have helped you please feel free to click on the black star.[/FONT] [FONT=Comic Sans MS] I am sorry that work means I don't get into the Employment Forum as often as I would like these days, but nonetheless I'll try to pop in when I can.[/FONT] [FONT=Arial Black][FONT=Comic Sans MS][COLOR=Red]'Venceremos' :wink:[/COLOR][/FONT][/FONT]

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My advice would be to wait until after the Bank Holiday Weekend. Then phone the tribunal and ask if the ET3 has been received. If it hasn't then ask what happens next. That way you are simply inquiring about your case and not trying to sound like you want something done fast, but it will flag it to them and they will look at it!

 

Unfortunately I haven't met an employment tribunal that has jumped on anything quickly!

 

Are you saying that the tribunal has not received the ET3 or you have not? as it can take up to 2 months for the ET3 to be sent to you from the tribunal!

 

I honestly do not know what route the Judge follows, I have never heard of a non-response to an ET1

I am not a legal professional or adviser, I am however a Law Student and very well versed areas of Employment Law. Anything I write here is purely from my own experiences! If I help, then click the star to add to my reputation :)

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Firstly,

 

Che,

 

Thank-you very much for the advice on the next steps. They were my next ports of call as I am reaching my limited knowledge. As mentioned in Ibruk's post, a non-response is not normal.

 

You mention a default judgment on liability... as opposed to what? What are the alternatives?

 

I would like to know if there is a list of orders or judgments at each stage of the ET process, which a solicitor may use. This would help a great deal with which process or order to follow. Maybe it is a student thing, in which case, the college of law would be best.

 

As you rightly suggested, the quantum is unclear in the ET1, this was expected to particularised in the SoL, subsequent to the Witness Statements, Disclosure and Bundle Preparation, which seem to now be surplus to requirements in a default judgment.

 

Seems a bit crazy to fail to submit an ET3 response and then be able to contest a Liability Hearing, very warped!

 

F2F?

 

If paying for legal advice for this stage and onwards, would it be reasonable to claim the costs back as the Respondent would be seen as displaying unreasonable behavior or is this something the court would not be expected to award under the circumstances of ignoring a court order.

 

 

Ibruk,

 

Agreed on the bank holiday waiting time.

 

I have telephoned the ET today, the deadline being 12pm the day before and the emails from that night do not show any responses, so in answer to your question, the ET has not received any response.

 

Waiting until after the bank holiday will certainly allow any responses to filter through the system, to be 100% sure of a failure to respond.

 

I will keep all informed as to how an un-responded ET1 fairs at the ET's hands.

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F2F?
Face to face (advice - I just mean 'real' advice) - if that makes sense.

 

Don't get too bogged down in procedure at this stage. ET's are not courts.

 

Just ring the ET and check if they are issuing default judgement on liability (i.e. do they agree that the the ER is liable of the specific allegations / heads of claim as set out in your ET1) - i.e. a default judgement on just liability at this stage.

 

Get that rolling first and come back....

 

Che

...................................................................... [FONT=Comic Sans MS]Please post on a thread before sending a PM. My opinion's are not expressed as agent or representative of The Consumer Action Group. Always seek professional advice from a qualified legal adviser before acting. If I have helped you please feel free to click on the black star.[/FONT] [FONT=Comic Sans MS] I am sorry that work means I don't get into the Employment Forum as often as I would like these days, but nonetheless I'll try to pop in when I can.[/FONT] [FONT=Arial Black][FONT=Comic Sans MS][COLOR=Red]'Venceremos' :wink:[/COLOR][/FONT][/FONT]

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Seems a bit crazy to fail to submit an ET3 response and then be able to contest a Liability Hearing, very warped!

 

Just reviewing this, and perhaps I wasn't clear sorry. - on this point alone, what I mean to say, and perhaps did not explain properly is that if you get default judgement then the issue of liability is (in theory) as dead as Monty Python's parrot - i.e. dead

 

Then the question is, "If they are liable, how much should they pay" - the remedies element of the claim. And at this remedy hearing your ER is perfectly entitled to turn up and say, "Ok we admit liability but we do not agree to any of the Claimant's figures in their Schedule, for example the Claimants's future loss is disputed because of their failure to mitigate losses etc etc... "

 

Hope that is some help and a bit clearer.

 

If you want to help yourself on this matter then I would recommend this book - http://www.lag.org.uk/Templates/System/Publications.asp?NodeID=90889&Mode=display You might find a copy of Naomi's book in your local library - assuming it has not been closed to pay a banker's bonus.

 

Let us know what the ET says on Tuesday, it helps all CAGGERS to know what actual ETs are doing in reality.

 

Che

...................................................................... [FONT=Comic Sans MS]Please post on a thread before sending a PM. My opinion's are not expressed as agent or representative of The Consumer Action Group. Always seek professional advice from a qualified legal adviser before acting. If I have helped you please feel free to click on the black star.[/FONT] [FONT=Comic Sans MS] I am sorry that work means I don't get into the Employment Forum as often as I would like these days, but nonetheless I'll try to pop in when I can.[/FONT] [FONT=Arial Black][FONT=Comic Sans MS][COLOR=Red]'Venceremos' :wink:[/COLOR][/FONT][/FONT]

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  • 2 months later...

It meant "original poster" lol

 

My et3 form was supposed to be received by the ET 2 days ago and they have not got anything, and I can be sure they got it.

 

I think the best thing to do would be wait till the beggining or next week and call them again and ask about a default judgement.

 

Is it a complicated process of fairly strait forward? (if you dont mind responding)

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I am the claiment, I work for a rather large insurance firm so I was shocked to hear they never responed, hopefully the e.t will make it a strait forward process as the size of the claim is not big.

 

Thats unless they come out with some waffle about why they never sent the et3 back

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When was the deadline for the ET3?

 

Due to the number of cases being submitted having doubled in the last 1-2 years, the ET system is extensively overloaded and it can take some time for ET1's and ET3's to work their way through the system.

 

They could well have responded. Best bet would be to call up 4 or 5 days after the deadline, account for working days and ask if an ET3 or leave for an extension had been filed. I say 4 or 5 days because it can take some time for emails and post to work its way through to the pile.

 

If you do receive a refault judgment, it then comes down to your schedule of loss as mentioned by 'elche' in an earlier post.

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