Enforcing E.T. Court order & Writ of Fieri Facias? HELP!?

[charlie's cat]

Long time lurker, first time poster...so please excuse me if I make any mistakes.

 

My husband and myself obtained E.T. Court judgements in our favour in January this year for unlawful deductions of wages from the same employer - we made separate claims, the Court combined them into one hearing and we each have a judgement award.

 

The respondent hasn't paid within the time-frame specified, and we were advised at the hearing to apply to the County Court if he didn't pay.

 

We went today and came away with 2 different forms, but we are confused as to which one would be best to submit - unfortunately the lady at the counter wasn't very sure either!

 

The forms are:

 

N322B - Application for an order to allow enforcement of a decision that does not require permission to proceed.

N471 - Application to enforce an award of an Employment Tribunal and request a Writ of Fieri Facias.

 

Can someone please offer advice on what the outcome would be for each application?

 

Also, as we already have judgments in our favour would submitting these forms entail another Court hearing?

 

Unfortunately this has been dragging on for months now, and I don't know whether we would be able to afford a lengthy drawn out court case.

 

Thanks in advance.

[ploddertom]

If it were me I would go with the N471 and employ an HCEO.

 

PT

[charlie's cat]

Thanks Ploddertom.

 

Would a HCEO be automatically assigned once the Court receives the N471?

 

Or would we have to apply separately?

 

I'm afraid that I'm getting slightly confused with information that I'm reading, so apologies if my questions appear simple to answer.

 

I've just come across the EX727 which is the fast track form and a HCEO is appointed upon submission of it - is it worth doing it this way perhaps?

[sweep1]

Both forms (EX727 & N471) are essentially the same and have the same cost (£60).

 

N471 allows you to nominate a HCEO of your own choice, EX727 will have a HCEO nominated by Registry Trust Ltd (the company that keeps a register of all money awards granted by the courts (CCJ`s, CMEC Liability orders etc) on behalf of HMCS).

 

Unlike most HCEO services, there are no further costs in respect of abortive fees (HCEO can`t collect or withdrawn).

 

Before using a HCEO, consider the ability of the debtor to pay (you can`t get money if the debtor has no money or enough goods to seize).

An HCEO is likely to add somewhere in the region of £1500 to £3000 in their fees to the debt they plan to recover (you only get your debt, not their fees).

If a HCEO plans to remove goods to the value of the debt (plus fees), they would have to be enough goods (typically between 3 to 5 times the value) to realise enough money at auction.

 

If nominating your own HCEO, the largest is not always the best, ask around.

 

There is a public list of HCEO - http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/enforcement-officers

 

There are a few HCEO who are independant of the larger companys or who may work for a solicitors practice.

Or there is the option of using one of the larger private HCEO companys.

[ploddertom]

Following up on what sweep1 has said above re their ability to pay there are a couple of things extra you need to consider. If the HCEO was to attend could he gain access easily - is the business open to the public. Do they deal in ready cash or is everything funded electronically. The HCEO can & will remove goods on a first visit - does the debtor have any assets that are not owned or financed by another.

 

As sweep1 says biggest is not always best and although we cannot name names on here there are those that appear to better than others. Timescale from instruction to action can be less than 3 weeks.

 

PT

[tomtubby]

Good advice from Ploddertom and Sweep. Personally, I would be writing to the person who owes you money to ask them to pay the debt within 7 days and then consider the HCEO route.

 

I would also suggest that BEFORE instructing an HCEO company that you send to them an email to ask the following:

 

Please confirm in writing whether your company would be charging any fees to me.

 

From any payment made by the debtor, please confirm that you will not be withholding any money in resepct of fees and charges to your company.

 

From receipt of any payment from the debtor, please confirm that you will forward payment to me within 30 days.

[charlie's cat]

Thank you ever so much for all of the great advice, it is most appreciated.

 

After discussing this earlier between ourselves and after contacting the E.T Court, we've decided to go down the Fast Track route.

 

We received letters from the respondent today stating that payment will be delayed due to sending an appeal to the Court, and he is waiting for a response from the Tribunal Judge.

 

One call to the Court confirmed that no contact has been made either during the case or after judgment was made, so he's talking out of his proverbials and obviously buying time - funnily enough he referred the Judge as 'he' when in fact it was a very nice lady Judge at our hearing.

 

To answer a few questions:

 

1. Access will be easy as it's open to the public.

2. There is ready cash on the premises at all times and the respondent has credit cards in his and company names.

3. He has stock and vehicles in his name.

4. We've tried sending letters requesting payment before starting the Tribunal case - he never responded to us, the Court or attended the hearing, so more letters will fall on deaf ears.

 

 

 

One final question if I may?

 

In the guidance notes for Fast Track it mentions that 8% is added to the Tribunal award and interest that's started accruing due to late payment.

 

Does that extra 8% come to us or towards the HCEO fees?

 

Thanks again for all the help.

[ploddertom]

It comes to you and the date runs from when the Award was made.

 

PT

[charlie's cat]

Thanks PT for the advice that you sent to me in your PM - unfortunately I can't send you a reply as I don't have enough posts to send a message yet.

 

We've now engaged the company that you suggested and will hopefully hear something next week...fingers crossed!

 

CC

[tomtubby]

There has recently been a question raised in the House of Commons on many ET awards were forwarded to HCEO and the level of repayment.

 

1,499 ET awards last year.

 

419 Paid in Full to HCEO

 

49 part paid

 

762 Unenforceable.

[charlie's cat]

Hmmmm TT, that's rather worrying isn't it?

 

I'm well aware that there's a chance they may struggle to sieze goods to the value of both of the writs and fees, as it's a Ltd company that the writs are being served against.

 

The respondent has a high value car, but he purchased it before he started the company so it's personal and not company property.

 

Also, the goods in the company name aren't enough to fulfill both of our awards - mine is relatively small so I may get mine, but my husband's award is a lot higher.

 

Just a quick question - if there is ready cash on the premises (in tills and the safe) can the HCEO's tell him to hand it over?

 

I know for a fact that at any given time there's more than enough to pay in full.

 

And does the respondent have to pay using a company debit/credit card, or can it be his personal one?

 

(To be honest it's become more of a moral fight than monetary, if we get nothing then we will still be OK financially)

 

TIA.

[wonkeydonkey]

Hmmmm TT, that's rather worrying isn't it?

 

I'm well aware that there's a chance they may struggle to sieze goods to the value of both of the writs and fees, as it's a Ltd company that the writs are being served against.

 

The respondent has a high value car, but he purchased it before he started the company so it's personal and not company property.

 

Also, the goods in the company name aren't enough to fulfill both of our awards - mine is relatively small so I may get mine, but my husband's award is a lot higher.

 

Just a quick question - if there is ready cash on the premises (in tills and the safe) can the HCEO's tell him to hand it over? the process would be for the HCEO to seize the safe and till and remove them, which of course then includes the contents

I know for a fact that at any given time there's more than enough to pay in full.

 

And does the respondent have to pay using a company debit/credit card, or can it be his personal one? the defendant can pay by any means available to him and if that is a £5 x anyone and everyone they can get to offer to pay on their behalf then so be it....always avoid payment by credit card

 

(To be honest it's become more of a moral fight than monetary, if we get nothing then we will still be OK financially)

 

TIA.

 

 

If /when you instruct the HCEO give them as much info as possible....eg: if they do not see a safe on the premises and there is nothing to suggest there is one then they would not be able to seize it...give them that ifnfo and they will find it, seize and remove it. The defendant will be given x days to make payment in full after which the safe will go to auction, a tue professional locksmith (not your common a garden changer of door locks) will know exactly how to get access to the contents of the safe without causing damage and then the contents can be taken to pay the debt.

 

 

WD

[charlie's cat]

Thanks WD.

 

Yes we've already instructed a company as advised by PT - the writs should be in the HCEO's hands any day now.

 

As for information about the safe, I passed that on along with the exact location of it - I could actually give them the combination but I don't know the laws of it where that's concerned.

 

I'm hoping to God that he doesn't try to plead poverty on the basis of his company's latest returns showing just £1 capital.

[wonkeydonkey]

If you have appointed the one I know to having been used by PT I can tell you I have used the same and you should see a good result because if there is the remotest chance the cash can be got at trust me ...they will get it.

 

WD

[charlie's cat]

Yes, it's the same one.

 

We're very confident that they are more than able due to the lack of complaints about them on forums such as this one.

 

It's been nearly 3 weeks since the writs were applied for, so it should be any day now.

 

Will give an update as and when we hear anything.

 

Thank you again everyone for the help/advice - if I was able to, I'd bake one of my chocolate truffle cakes for each one of you!

[wonkeydonkey]

Yes, it's the same one.

 

We're very confident that they are more than able due to the lack of complaints about them on forums such as this one.

 

It's been nearly 3 weeks since the writs were applied for, so it should be any day now.

 

Will give an update as and when we hear anything.

 

Thank you again everyone for the help/advice - if I was able to, I'd bake one of my chocolate truffle cakes for each one of you!

 

I would willingly risk the wrath of the site team and give my address for one of your chocolate truffle cakes as they sound delicious lol

Good Luck and do please keep us updated as the outcome could be a great help to another at future date.

 

 

WD

[charlie's cat]

Ha ha!

 

I was going to add that along with the dark chocolate truffle fondant filling, I also pop a dozen or so hand made truffles on top of the cake...but I wouldn't want anyone to drool.

 

Will definitely update as soon as we hear anything.

[ploddertom]

Ha ha!

 

I was going to add that along with the dark chocolate truffle fondant filling, I also pop a dozen or so hand made truffles on top of the cake...but I wouldn't want anyone to drool.

 

Will definitely update as soon as we hear anything.

 

Maybe we need to send the HCEO to you to take into custody all these salivating goodies.

 

PT

[charlie's cat]

They'd eat them before they got them in the van!

 

Bit of an update...we both received 'Order for recovery of award' letters from the court today.

 

I'm assuming that the respondent will also have received these, and it means that our writs were granted?

 

Am asking because we haven't heard anything from the HCEO company since we submitted our applications, and emails haven't been answered.

 

The orders were dated last week so I'm hoping that the respondent is due a visit any day.

[charlie's cat]

Success!

 

But not exactly how I was expecting it to pan out.

 

It appears as though the 'Order for recovery of award' was enough to scare the respondent into paying up...we received 2 cheques yesterday!

 

The HCEO's weren't due to be allocated until tomorrow - which we weren't told about until yesterday - due to ET cases having to be left for 2 weeks until they can serve the writs.

 

So we've requested the cases to be put on hold until the cheques clear, but unfortunately it means that we have lost out on the £120 writ fees...but it's been more about the principal than the money, so I'm not fussed about it.

 

Many, many, many thanks to all on here who posted/pm'd advice - please accept a cosmic truffle cake as gratitude.

 

http://s1174.photobucket.com/albums/r605/the_earth_mother/

[wonkeydonkey]

:thumb:You should have and still have got the option to send the payments to the Enforcement co. they will bank them against the account and should they 'bounce' have the right to make their visits to collect in cash + the fees and interest. However if you are happy with the result then that is the main thing, well done to you.

 

WD

[charlie's cat]

Apparently not, as the cases weren't due to be allocated until today - they were still in the pre-enforcement queue.

 

If he had sent them AFTER they'd served the wits then they would need to be sent to them asap.

 

Thanks again guys x

[wonkeydonkey]

Sorry but ...until BOTH those cheques clear you can still proceed with the enforcement as the debt remains UNPAID it is a fact that many debtors will give cheques to payment to prevent enforcement in full knowledge the cheque/cheques will not clear. By letting the enforcement go ahead the attending officer will reason if the money is there to pay by cheque.... then the money can also be paid by debit card..they don't take cheques!!

 

I do hope the cheques clear and you get a good result so the matter can be put to rest.

 

WD

[charlie's cat]

I'm just going off what I was told by the HCEO company - they said that they have to put the cases on hold until either the cheques bounce or clear.

 

I actually asked if we could ignore the cheques and allow the HCEO's to still attend, and I was given a firm 'NO!'.