Fairly urgent - tribunal advice needed

[sido]

i did represent my self sorry and it took me so much time ,you have to focused in the all lettres you got from the company and definitly you will find somthings and you can use it against theme.use your brain and read and read and read and use your imagination and you will see

[sido]

still there

[assisted blonde]

did you mean £150.00 ?

[kingofrod]

did you mean £150.00 ?

 

Well see that confused me, too..... I did a Google for all cases settling for this amount of money and none seemed to match the other circumstances offered. There's the woman sacked for being sexually harassed by her boss, but she left the company. There's a police officer who won that figure in race damages (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1377642/Sikh-policeman-wins-150000-race-damages.html). Again though, the case doesn't really fit.

 

Sido, if you've been to trial and won your case, I don't understand why you can't discuss it and share with others the wisdom that helped you to victory?

 

Cheers, and all the best.

[lbruk]

sido's advice there is slightly suspicious. Although he makes a good point about the letter and focusing your case.

 

If you bring the company into disrepute then you can be discplined for it. Its like going to the newspaper and telling them what a bad employer they are, you would get into trouble for that even though its out of work!

[kingofrod]

4) I'd say you have a snowballs chance in hell of that bring granted, sorry! Why is the ET so far away?

They've just come back to me and agreed to cover these expenses..... Wow.

[becky2585]

Blimey - the ET where I submit my claims won't even cover bus fares!

[kingofrod]

They must have sensed how devastatingly handsome I am... although it was a bloke who replied lol !

[kingofrod]

Can anyone point me in the right direction for a sample specific disclosure letter, please? I've done an hour or more of Googling and can't find a sample.

 

Is it as simple as saying "I'd like the respondent to provide XYZ, which they have failed to provide following my reasonable request dated XXXX and following their response assuring me that this information would be provided by XXXX" ??

 

Is there a specific fomat the request should take? I assume, also, that it gets sent to both Tribunal and respondent?

 

One chunk of the data I requested came through and proved the point I was trying to make, that changes would be carried out to my timetable without my being notified. But I'd like to provide more evidence of the same, from a second of the company's directors.

 

Worth persuing this, or will the one set of evidence be enough?

[SWIS]

Wind up merchant alarm is ringing loudly in this thread !!

[kingofrod]

Wind up merchant alarm is ringing loudly in this thread !!

You're not wrong.....

 

Get many of them here?

[lbruk]

Ah, man after my own heart! lol

 

Simple DSAR will do if you have enough time to do that before the tribunal. Otherwise, just send a list of the documents, with dates and people who wrote them, to the respondent saying this is what you want in the bundle.

[kingofrod]

Found this sample, but seems VERY long winded :

 

Dear XXX

 

Please be reminded that the process of disclosure involves producing a list of documents that are in your possession or control and that are relevant to the issues between yourself and [CLAIMANT].

 

Inspection is the process by which the parties see the documents held by each other. This is usually done by exchange of photocopies.

 

To comply with your duty of disclosure you must:

• Make a reasonable search for relevant documents in your possession or under your control

• Do not destroy documents that you recover as a result of your search.

 

The issues in the claim brought by [CLAIMANT] are [DETAILS]. You therefore need to disclose all those relevant documents that deal with:

 

The duty to disclose documents remains in force throughout the proceedings. Therefore, if further relevant documents are found or are created while the claim is ongoing, they should be disclosed.

 

The fact that documents are marked "confidential" is not enough to exclude them from the disclosure process. However, it may be possible to provide the information they contain in a manner that does not involve a breach of confidence. One way of doing this is by redacting (covering up) irrelevant or identifiably confidential parts of documents or by substituting anonymous references for specific names.

 

In addition to the provision for general disclosure of documents, tribunals have the power to order "specific disclosure" of documents requested by either party to proceedings.

 

If, on consideration of a list of documents, either party considers that the other has failed to give full disclosure of all their relevant documents, they may make an application to the tribunal. They will have to explain which document or category of documents they consider has been omitted, why those documents are relevant and ask the tribunal to order specific disclosure of those documents.

 

Tribunals usually attempt to avoid putting excessive burdens on employers but will order disclosure of what they consider to be important information needed by an employee. In considering an application, tribunals balance, on the one hand the expense and inconvenience that such an order might cause you, with, on the other, the need to ensure that the employee has the information they need to present their case and that the case is dealt with justly.

 

CONSEQUENCES OF FAILING TO COMPLY WITH DISCLOSURE DUTIES

 

Failure to comply with an order for disclosure can carry penalties. In addition to exercising their power to make an order for one party to pay the costs incurred by the other as a result of a failure to comply with disclosure duties, tribunals can strike out the whole or part of an ET1 or, as the case may be, an ET3.

 

Orders for disclosure are increasingly being issued with "unless orders", providing that unless the order is complied with, which includes compliance by a specified date or deadline, the ET1 or ET3 will be struck out without further consideration of the proceedings.

 

Therefore, to avoid any of the above occurring please send the requested documents by no later than [DATE].

 

Yours sincerely

 

XXX

 

 

Read more: I am in employment tribunal proceedings against my current - JustAnswer http://www.justanswer.com/uk-law/5q3re-employment-tribunal-proceedings-against-current.html#ixzz1sJMxSgZS

[lbruk]

yeah seems way to formal to me, the kind of letter the ET would send you both.

[kingofrod]

yeah seems way to formal to me, the kind of letter the ET would send you both.

OK. Thought as much. So just a fairly brief letter outlining WHAT I'm looking for and WHY? Can I also put in there, so the Tribunal is aware, that time is now running short and it's important that these documents are provided as soon as possible to enable me to update my Witness Statement and have the bundle completed accordingly?

 

Am I allowed to refer to, and quote, previous emails in which I've requested these documents directly and been promised them by the respondent only to have never been given them? Or do all emails between myself and the respondent remain private (or does that just refer to the WPSATC letters)?

[becky2585]

Yeah that is a fairly ridiculous precedent letter!

 

All you need to do is what you previously suggested in terms of a letter to the ET, a brief letter is fine, detailng the dates that you made the request and the fact that the documents have not been forthcoming, but copy it to the other side pursuant to Rule 11(4) of the Employment Tribunals Constitution and Rules of Procedure Regs. I seem to recall that orders of this nature are made pursuant to Rule 11(2) of the Rules and therefore you should indicate that the request is made pursuant to Rule 11(2) but but I'd check that point before sending it to the ET as that's just off the top of my head.

 

And yes - you can actually enclose with your application for the order the emails you've sent requesting the documents and the responses received.

[lbruk]

there are some good line in that letter i might go with;

 

 

Dear XXX

 

To comply with the tribunals request to exchange documents i would like to suggest the following:

 

The issues in the claim brought by [CLAIMANT] are [DETAILS]. You therefore need to disclose all those relevant documents that deal with:

 

The duty to disclose documents remains in force throughout the proceedings. Therefore, if further relevant documents are found or are created while the claim is ongoing, they should be disclosed.The fact that documents are marked "confidential" is not enough to exclude them from the disclosure process.

 

To avoid any problems please send the requested documents by no later than [DATE].

 

Yours sincerely

[becky2585]

Incidentally if you've requested them previously I wouldn't even bother writing to your employer again, I'd just copy them into the ET application.

[kingofrod]

Thanks both of you for this EXCELLENT advice.

 

I shall get this email off to the ET tonight and CC the respondent. The hearing has been changed to the 6th May and is a two day hearing so time is running out.... I need to get the documents, read over them, amend my statement accordingly, get the bundle updated etc.

 

Very disappointed at how poor Acas have been through all of this. Waste of time!

[kingofrod]

Ooooh sorry. Am I allowed to request a deadline, say, seven days?

[lbruk]

Sounds reasonable, they have to disclose all documents and statements at least 7 days before the yearning anyway.

[kingofrod]

Thanks so much. I'll get that letter off today.

 

I've just been looking over the other documentation they sent me earlier and I know for a fact that there are inaccuracies.

 

We had an appointments booking system in the office - very advanced stuff - that kept track of all my sales visits etc. I'm down as having visited a client on a day I KNOW I was off work. I know this a) because I do (lol) and b) because I've never actually visited this client before. Ever.

 

The date(s) in question were dates that I had arranged ad-hoc time off with the company directors (i.e. not through official channels, which is what the bulk of my case is about) so I think it's important to get this information right. But am I allowed to call them liars? Or accuse them of giving me duff info?

[becky2585]

Yes you can do although the ET will usually do that off their own back, it wouldn't hurt to highlight the urgency though. Obviously don't forget to include the case number and title.

[kingofrod]

Yes you can do although the ET will usually do that off their own back, it wouldn't hurt to highlight the urgency though. Obviously don't forget to include the case number and title.

Thanks, Becky.

 

Can I also ask, I've been looking over the witness statements from the respondent - they've included two : one from the initial hearing manager whose decision it was to dismiss me and the second from the appeal hearing manager (the one who said "I'd have sacked you for that anyway" at the start of my appeals hearing).

 

At what point am I able to question them on their statements? Am I allowed to accuse them of using extremely circumstantial evidence against me?

 

I've not been able to get to a tribunal yet to see how they operate as they always seem to get pulled at the last minute where I am and on my days off.

 

So I've really NO IDEA AT ALL as to how the day will actually progress.

 

I'm scared that I'll do something the hearing judge would not like. Like if I remember something in the room and say it but it's not included in my witness statement. Will that work against me? Should I just stick to my statement and say nothing else?

 

I think I love you, by the way.

[lbruk]

Stick to the information that proves your case, it's up to the respondent to prove your claim is rubbish. Try not to argue about points that do not prove your case.

 

When cross examining, again just stick to questions that will prove your case, I'd advise that you ask questions that prove facts, facts that cannot be denied by the witness.