DCA and old mortgage debt

[give_me_it_back]

Very quick question... Help very appreciated...

 

Can a DCA collect an old mortgage debt if they cannot provide the original documentation, and therefore prove they have the right to collect?

 

What is the law on this?

 

Thanks very much

[give_me_it_back]

Is there no-one who can help me with this..? PLEASE..?

[ozzywizard]

From what I know with a mortgage it is not barred untill it goes 12 years without contact and payment. But I am not sure on producing the agreement as it will be registered on the land registry as owing.

[gizmo111]

Very quick question... Help very appreciated...

 

Can a DCA collect an old mortgage debt if they cannot provide the original documentation, and therefore prove they have the right to collect?

 

What is the law on this?

 

Thanks very much

 

Is this a shortfall on an old mortgage - don't know about agreements but you are quite within your rights to send off a SAR to see what you are being charged.

[Seminole]

The Consumer Credit Act request won't work with a mortgage. The agreement has to make reference to the CCA for it to apply. Most secured loans don't.

 

In the case of a non-CCA agreement the normal rules of evidence would apply. The creditor would be required to prove that you owe the money. If they can't produce a signed agreement or other evidence to support their contention then they are very unlikely to succeed in court. Such evidence could include details of a charge at the Land Registry,

[gizmo111]

The Consumer Credit Act request won't work with a mortgage. The agreement has to make reference to the CCA for it to apply. Most secured loans don't.

 

In the case of a non-CCA agreement the normal rules of evidence would apply. The creditor would be required to prove that you owe the money. If they can't produce a signed agreement or other evidence to support their contention then they are very unlikely to succeed in court. Such evidence could include details of a charge at the Land Registry,

 

Yes - but I suspect that this an old shortfall maybe an ins claim on a MIg and therfore no land registry charge would apply - we need OP to clarify.

[Seminole]

A land registry search would throw up old charges. A charge in the name of X bank might be sufficient evidence that a loan existed.

[gizmo111]

A land registry search would throw up old charges. A charge in the name of X bank might be sufficient evidence that a loan existed.

 

I didn't know it did old charges - have only seen current ones - worth knowing

[give_me_it_back]

Thanks so much for the dialogue guys. It is a very old debt (the house was repossed - voluntarily - in 1991). I was paying up until 5 years ago, when I moved and changed banks and didn't realise the direct debit had disappeared. I have been chased by a DCA, who SAY they are acting on behalf of Halifax, but cannot provide any proof of the loan or that they have the legal entitlement to collect.

 

Surely it would be easy enough for them to get the Land Registry details to prove it... Or is it not easy for them to get this information?

 

I have given them months to provide me with evidence, and they just say it is lost. Cough up!

 

I really don't know where to go from here...

[gizmo111]

Thanks so much for the dialogue guys. It is a very old debt (the house was repossed - voluntarily - in 1991). I was paying up until 5 years ago, when I moved and changed banks and didn't realise the direct debit had disappeared. I have been chased by a DCA, who SAY they are acting on behalf of Halifax, but cannot provide any proof of the loan or that they have the legal entitlement to collect.

 

Surely it would be easy enough for them to get the Land Registry details to prove it... Or is it not easy for them to get this information?

 

I have given them months to provide me with evidence, and they just say it is lost. Cough up!

 

I really don't know where to go from here...

 

Well I think I would spend £20 and send SAR to DCA and HAlifax - as otherwise this could go on forever - how are you supposed to know balance charges etc without info?

[give_me_it_back]

Yep - I reckon so. I will write to Halifax with DPA request. Do I need to do the same with the DCA? I have also contacted CAB and they are going to get back to me too.

[gizmo111]

Yep - I reckon so. I will write to Halifax with Data Protection Act request. Do I need to do the same with the DCA? I have also contacted CAB and they are going to get back to me too.

 

Well I would for the sake of £10 the onus is on them to prove - is this the actual mortgage or are they chasing the MIG?

[give_me_it_back]

The mortgage..

[give_me_it_back]

Do you think this letter to the Halifax is sufficient?

I held an account with Halifax pre 1991 in the name of XXXXXXX. My previous address was XXXXXXX.

 

I require you to provide me with all the information you have in relation to my closed mortgage account.

 

I also need to know:

 

1. Was my closed account sold, and, if so, to whom?

 

2, Why was I not issued with a default notice?

 

3. Why was I not informed of the sale?

 

I enclose the statutory maximum fee of £10. You have 40 days in which to comply (therefore until

 

If there is specific information which you require in order to satisfy yourself as to my identity, please let me know by return. I would be happy to collect the Data from my local branch.

[jo5ephedward5]

Do you think this letter to the Halifax is sufficient?

I held an account with Halifax pre 1991 in the name of XXXXXXX. My previous address was XXXXXXX.

 

I require you to provide me with all the information you have in relation to my closed mortgage account.

 

I also need to know:

 

1. Was my closed account sold, and, if so, to whom?

 

2, Why was I not issued with a default notice?

 

3. Why was I not informed of the sale?

 

I enclose the statutory maximum fee of £10. You have 40 days in which to comply (therefore until

 

If there is specific information which you require in order to satisfy yourself as to my identity, please let me know by return. I would be happy to collect the Data from my local branch.

 

No use the standard: (add details such as old address for them to find your details and agremnet numbers if you have them and that it is a mortgage debt etc)

 

Please supply me with a complete list of transactions and charges relating to my banking history with your organisation. Alternatively, a complete set of statements for that period will be acceptable.

 

Additionally, where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any member of your staff, or any other person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my banking business with you.

 

If you are unable to supply this data because there has been no such manual intervention, then please be so kind as to confirm this in your response.

 

I enclose the statutory maximum fee of £10. You have 40 days in which to comply. Furthermore, if I discover that you have levied disproportionate penalties against me, then I shall be reclaiming them, and also reclaiming the enclosed £10 Data Protection Act subject access request fee.

 

If there is specific information which you require in order to satisfy yourself as to my identity, please let me know by return. However, please note that the above address is the one which you normally use to communicate my private business to me and which you have hitherto found to be acceptable.

I would be happy to collect the Data from my local branch.

Please note if this has been received by the wrong department can it be forwarded internally in to the relevant department in accordance to the above request.

 

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

[give_me_it_back]

Great Jo! Thanks again mate!

[gizmo111]

I sent this to an old mortgate account and now cannot change the centring

Data Protection Act 1998

Subject Access Request

 

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Mortgage Account; Property; XXXXXXXXXXXX

 

Please supply me with all the information that you have on myself regarding the above mortgage. The mortgage commenced XXX and the property was sold by yourself circa Dec 1995. I wish to receive all statements, including the completion statement, and a complete list of charges that were applied to this account. My name at the time of the commencement of the mortgage was XXXXXXXXXX, my date of birth is XXXXXX

Additionally, where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any member of your staff, or any other person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my banking business with you.

 

If you are unable to supply this data because there has been no such manual intervention, then please be so kind as to confirm this in your response.

 

I enclose a cheque for the statutory fee of £10. You have 40 days in which to comply. Furthermore, if I discover that you have levied disproportionate penalties against me, then I shall be reclaiming them, and also reclaiming the enclosed £10 DPA subject access request fee.

 

If there is specific information which you require in order to satisfy yourself as to my identity, please let me know by return.

Yours faithfully,

 

 

 

[give_me_it_back]

Thanks Gizmo. Sorry - what do you mean by you 'cannot change the centring'?

[gizmo111]

Thanks Gizmo. Sorry - what do you mean by you 'cannot change the centring'?

 

My message came in the middle rather than left looked a bit odd - specially if you like a beer on Friday!

[give_me_it_back]

looks good to me.. although I have had a few g and t's!!!

 

Thanks again!

[give_me_it_back]

I haven't heard from either of them yet, although the 10.00 SAR cheque to CIS was cashed... does this mean they HAVE got some information on me..?

 

Halifax haven't cashed the cheque...

[give_me_it_back]

Or could it mean the DCA have just cashed the £10 but not used it towards the SAR? Can they do this legally?

[jo5ephedward5]

no they cant - but i'm sure time will tell if thats what they have done

[give_me_it_back]

Hi. I have heard back from the DCA. Halifax have still not acknowledged my letter, or cashed the £10 for the SAR I sent them.

 

What the DCA have sent looks absolutely useless, but I really need some advice. Are they able to claim from me with what they have sent me:

 

Their covering letter says "Further to your request please find all the information you are entitled to under the DPA. Please note that if you require a SARN request from my client, you should forward a coverting letter to myself and enclose a further cheque for £10 payable to Halifax."

 

a) Copies of all the letters they have sent me in the last 6 months. (I already have all those!)

 

b) More blank sheets for me to complete with my outgoings (I have already done this!)

 

c) A photocopy of a very unofficial looking print off entitled Cisac 2000 headed 'borrower details'. This has my name (incorrectly spelled) and my current address. Nothing more.

 

d) A second Cisac 2000 entitled 'account details'. This has the address of the old mortgage and a box saying:

 

original loss: £29,641.06

Sale £33,500.00

Gross loss: £28,770.06

 

Net loss: £28,770.06

 

e) A 'case history' report - which is just a typed sheet giving details of their involvement. This goes back to 15/9/05 - where it says:

 

CAUTION - NEW CASE. Take appropriate action. Completion date 22/10/92 Expired 22/10/98.

 

It then goes on to show that they traced me through Electoral register and Equifax, then a list of all the 'generic type' letters they sent me.

 

On 6/9/06 there is a note to say "Halifax have mislaid the file and have requested that we hold for 6 months and request details again"

 

I am tempted to tell them the same. Surely these 'details' are NOT enough to prove they have the right to collect the money? There is no signed agreement. In fact nothing official at all - everything they have looks to have come from their own office.

 

What steps should I now take?

 

THANK YOU to you!!

[give_me_it_back]

Bump... Help.. Please... I REALLY do need some assistance on this...