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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
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      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Hi. I've had nothing but good advice from this group in the past, and could really do with some again please.

 

My wife phoned 123 Debt Solutions, and arranged a DMP with them. When I found out, I looked online and found many recommendations for the free payplan.com, and she has now decided to arrange the DMP with them instead.

 

Problem is, she gave 123 DS her debit card number, and now that the pack has arrived from them in the post, I notice that in the T&Cs, it says:-

 

3.10 By providing your card details for your 1st payment, You have entered into an agreement and You will be liable for 1st payment into the Plan. Should You not wish to enter into the Plan and require a refund, please return Your unsigned documents to Us, accompanied by a cancellation letter. Please see section 5.3 of these terms.

 

5.3 If You wish to cancel the agrement, You must do so within seven days of making a payment in order to receive a refund. If We have already disbursed funds to the creditors on behalf of the client, a refund will not be issued.

 

 

Note that she has not signed anything, and never authorised any payment to be taken, she simply provided over the phone information she was asked for, but now I'm concerned that they will take the money from her account without permission.

 

Can anybody assist with a suitable cancellation letter. Many many thanks.

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Send them back and make sure you send them rec or reg. at once!

Check that they have not taken anything out and if poss. get her to cancel the card and ask for a new card no. asap. if you can do this before anyone trys to take money then it will cut out the long process of having to get the refund :)

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I think you should also write to your bank confirming that this company no longer has permission to take money from account. If necessary, you are going to have to ask for a new card.

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Thanks spots1. Will keep updating with anything that may be of use to others.

 

Recieved paperwork from Payplan today, but unfortunately they listed our tax credits wrong, forgot to list council tax as an outgoing, and forgot to list my wife's disability living allowance, so have to call them on Monday.

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  • 2 months later...

i have had the same problem with this company, unlawfully taking money from my account for a service i have not recieved as i cancelled it, £82.00 lighter now, been on to the financial ombudsman, as these people were supposed to help you out of debt not put you in it!! go to payplan they are run by the goverment and 100% goes to your creditors,

 

steer clear of these 123 debt solutions are a joke!!!

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  • 1 month later...
steer clear of these 123 debt solutions are a joke!!!

 

Too right they are. We just received their welcome pack and reading very small print it seems they would offer their services (which consists of them sending a few letters out) to us for the bargain price of £25 PER MONTH,! That would double the debt we are in :mad2:

 

Needless to say they can shove their service where the sun doesn't shine.

 

BE VARY CAREFULof this so called "solution", nowhere on their website does it mention their charges, at no time during the initial phone call was any charge mentioned. They shouldn't be allowed to prey on the needy in the way that they do.

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i have had the same problem with this company, unlawfully taking money from my account for a service i have not recieved as i cancelled it, £82.00 lighter now, been on to the financial ombudsman, as these people were supposed to help you out of debt not put you in it!! go to payplan they are run by the goverment and 100% goes to your creditors,

 

steer clear of these 123 debt solutions are a joke!!!

 

Payplan are not run by the Government (if they were they wouldn't be anything like as good as they are). Payplan are a private sector company who provide free DMP's funded via lenders.

Edited by Nick Pearson
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Payplan are not run by the Government (if they were they wouldn't be anything like as good as they are). Payplan are a private sector company who provide free DMP's funded via lenders.

 

Hi

 

Are there any Goverment run ones Nick?

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  • 2 weeks later...

There is also the option of doingt it yourself and arranging your own DMP.

 

This is what I have done and I feel a lot more in control of the situation than using a 3rd party and I got a great deal of satisfaction out of negotiating with creditors myself. I have certainly become a lot more assertive with them than I was at the start :)

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Tbh, i'd have been very wary from the off, of a company called "123 debt solutions". It sounds like something a 5 year old could have come up with.

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

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  • 5 weeks later...

With regard to this company, I have had nothing but good experiences. They are seriously helping me to get out of a terrible situation.

However, I'm not sure that I understand the points you are making about their terms and conditions...surely you can liken this contract to any other kind of contract. For example, would you enter into an agreement with a mobile phone company and then refuse to pay them and then on top of that refuse to follow their cancellation procedure that you have agreed to by signing the documentation?

As with all contracts, their is a cooling off period. If it is a distance sale, the period is 14 days. This should be plenty of time to potentially change your mind, and if not, more fool you!

 

I'd also like to ask why, if you were not completely sure about it, that you would give your card details to a company for processing on a certain date. I know I wouldnt!

 

I think people need to be more aware of what they are actually agreeing to...dont sign agreements if you dont agree with them!!

 

I would also like to mention the gripe that you appear to have with 123 debt solutions charging a fee. They are a business, and they are providing you with a service, so what is the problem with them charging a fee?? They deal with all my creditors by phone and post, and their staff are in 7 days a week, which is great for me because I work full time and would find it difficult to contact them otherwise. The person I spoke to initially did not hide anything from me, and I do not have a problem with fees being taken to have this weight taken off my shoulders.

 

Thanks to 123 debt solutions, I will only be in debt for another year or so, all being well. I wouldnt have been able to do this on my own and as another plus, they have also got the interest and charges frozen on every one of my debts.

 

I also did some research on payplan. They are not really free. As mentioned previously, they are funded by the lenders...so the lenders will push you to go with payplan if they can. That way, you are esentially paying your interest and charges every month, and I'd be surprised if you could actually get out of debt in a reasonable amount of time.

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NIckykr seems very defensive of 123, i wonder if i rang what the chances are of a NIcky working there??? very high.

 

The point is Nicky. people are in debt, cant afford to pay their creditors so for 123 to sort they pay them a stupid amount of money. therefore reducing the amount they could pay, and taking longer to pay.

 

EXAMPLE:

 

user owes 24000, and pays Payplan £100 per month, this will mean they will pay off in 20yrs

user pays 123 £100pm maybe £85 will get paid to creditors meaning it will take over 23yrs to pay off.

 

DO the sums..... it makes sense. dont pay for your DMP!!!

even your creditors will tell you to ditch a fee paying dmp for a free one.

  • Haha 1
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I love how they say they can guarantee freezing charges and interest. THat just isnt the case.

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

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Hi

 

One that always makes me chuckle with some of the fee chargers is when you read that they 'work' harder than the free providers at getting the interest and charges frozen, a strange and rather paradoxical view really when you think about it, especially the charges bit.

 

Still not seen anything around from them about working harder at stopping any up front fees and the keeping of the first couple of months or so payments and that though.

 

You would crease yourself with laughing if you thought about it too much really, ah well, thats marketing for ya I suppose.

Edited by Wintry
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They cant work harder. ALl the free ones and the paid ones can do is ask the creditor to stop interest and charges based on the financial situation of the debtor. If they say no, then tough luck.

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

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They cant work harder. ALl the free ones and the paid ones can do is ask the creditor to stop interest and charges based on the financial situation of the debtor. If they say no, then tough luck.

 

Hi

 

Well yes, I see your point.

 

Maybe some of them are more persistent, and because the creditors get less from their payment arrangements when you take the fees into account the creditors think well, lets freeze the interest and charges but not with the free providers or maybe its just marketing and sales rubbish:)

 

Anyway enough of that for tonight Im off to bed to watch my Columbo DVDs again (fantastic entertainment from the sadly missed brilliant Peter Falk that just gets better & better with time)

Edited by Wintry
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Yep. Agree with you there. Have fun with columbo. I havent seen any of those movies for a long time.

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

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They cant work harder. ALl the free ones and the paid ones can do is ask the creditor to stop interest and charges based on the financial situation of the debtor. If they say no, then tough luck.

 

Actually, they do a lot more work than that in relality. Or at least, some of them do.

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