me vs black horse

[alibobsy]

Right reply to SAR recieved although they still haven't cashed my cheque lol.

Got confirmation that a few details I had were correct and some extra accouts so to update.

latest loan was a stand alone loan and had no PPI-now paid off so can ignore.

Loan before that again stood alone but had PPI and was fully paid off at the end of the normal agreement-this is one of those I mentioned in my first complaint so they are already considering my PPi on this one. Plus I have used ims's spread sheet to work out the interest so know what they should be offering on that one.

 

Then it gets complicated.

 

Prior to that was a loan which we paid off early with a loan elsewhere-see my ongoing GE money claim lol.This loan paid off a previous loan (say loan a) and some that they had left by mistake on another earlier loan (say loan b).

Then we have the loan (a as above) which should have paid off the earlier loan (loan b) in full but they "miscalculated".

All of which had PPI. They have sent agreements and other documentation, but no statements-despite their covering letter stating statements are enclosed.

the earliest loan (loan b) also states it paid off an earlier loan still and quotes the ref number, but no details are here for that loan.

 

The packet they were in was packed and taped up (by them not the PO) and very full so I did wonder if a futher evelope maybe on its way as well. With give it a day and if nothing further give them a buzz tommorrow. 7 & or 8k just in the PPI amounts quoted so with interest (ealiest loan SO FAR 2000 and apr of 44.9 on that) should mount up if I can just get my head around the calculations.

 

May need your assistance ims21 but need to chase up the rest of my info first.

 

Ali x

[dx100uk]

i would wait a while yes

 

dx

[ims21]

Hi Ali

 

As dx says..wait a bit.

 

I'll help you with the calculations so don't worry on that front.

 

ims

[alibobsy]

Nothing over the weekend, but not had post yet today so will hang fire till later to chase up. Thanks guys

ali x

[alibobsy]

Didn't get anyhting further so contacted them to chase up, gave them the ref number for one of the earlier loans plus the payment and rough date details for the previous loans-will await results.

 

Ali x

[alibobsy]

OK so using Xboxers tip about looking on the agreement you get for the older number I have kept chasing black horse and have all the info accept for the earliest loan. This loan list on the banks statement as only being for £500 and lasted a year-but was not paid off by the next loan. BH state without the ref number they can't trace it, and we can't find the number. However using the £700 loan taken out about 6 wks after the earlier one ended I think I can work out how much the PPI would have been and it is a reasonable assumption that the interest rates should also be about the same. Will do a calc based on those assumtions so thats no problem (only low payments-around £5 a month but going back to mid 1996 @31.8% should add up.

 

We then get into the loans that had PPI then paid each other off over and over.

 

Am I right in thinking that I take the PPI on the first loan and divide it into the total loan to work out what percentage of the loan was PPI-then I get a bit lost. I assume I need to work out how much of the paid off bit carried on to the new loan is the "old" PPI. Do I then end up with a calc sheet with all the "old" ppis amounts on and a separate sheet with the PPI for the new loan.

 

Then if that gets settled again how do I work out what is PPI from the first loan,and what is ppi from the second. Do I then end up with 3 sets of cals-first loan ppi, second loand PPi and current loan ppi?

 

Starting to get very complex lol.

 

I have on stand along loan at the start then a new loan say A, which was paid off early by loan B, paid off by loan c, paid off by loan d.

D should have been paid off by loan E, but they cocked up and didn't take out the settlement before paying us the money and sadly with our overdraft (and the fact it took them about 2 months before they let us know what had happened-well they didn't tell us just tried to take to lots of DD out and we got charged doh) So we ended up with loan F that paid off what was left of D and E. Loan F was a scarily high loan and even worse was a secured loan (god we were so stupid). This was settled early but by another secured loan with GE money (don't get me started lol).

 

Then finally a few years later we get a further loan which didn't pay any others off and ran its course to be paid in full at the end of its term (so at least this was an easy calc rofl).

 

I have no problems with the figures or the spreadsheets (thankyou ims ). But its the method I need to get clear on so would appreciate any help.

 

Ali x

[dx100uk]

ping ims

 

dx

[ims21]

OK so using Xboxers tip about looking on the agreement you get for the older number I have kept chasing black horse and have all the info accept for the earliest loan. This loan list on the banks statement as only being for £500 and lasted a year-but was not paid off by the next loan. BH state without the ref number they can't trace it, and we can't find the number. However using the £700 loan taken out about 6 wks after the earlier one ended I think I can work out how much the PPI would have been and it is a reasonable assumption that the interest rates should also be about the same. Will do a calc based on those assumtions so thats no problem (only low payments-around £5 a month but going back to mid 1996 @31.8% should add up.

 

One member had success in getting an old account number by going into a local branch and asking and they managed to pull it up on the computer! Might be wroth a try. If not you can estimate it based on your £700 loan. Remember you are not claiming 31.8% from 1996 till now.

 

We then get into the loans that had PPI then paid each other off over and over.

 

Am I right in thinking that I take the PPI on the first loan and divide it into the total loan to work out what percentage of the loan was PPI-then I get a bit lost. ppi loan / total loan x 100 gives you the percentage. Apply that percentage to each repayment you have made to get the ppi loan you have actually paid. I assume I need to work out how much of the paid off bit carried on to the new loan is the "old" PPI. Do I then end up with a calc sheet with all the "old" ppis amounts on and a separate sheet with the PPI for the new loan. Use the "loan analysis" spreadsheet in the last post of No.1 in my signature to find out the balance of the loan after x pnumber of payments. You can then see how much ppi loan was carried into loan 2 and work out its percentage relative to the loan 2 total.

 

Then if that gets settled again how do I work out what is PPI from the first loan,and what is ppi from the second. Do I then end up with 3 sets of cals-first loan ppi, second loand PPi and current loan ppi? If you work out that loan 1 ppi included in loan 2 is, for example, 5% of the loan 2 total and that the actuall ppi for loan 2 is, say, 15% of the loan 2 total, you know that 20% of loan 2 is ppi. Using the loan analysis sheet you can work out the balance of the loan transferred into loan 3 and 20% of that balance will be ppi.

 

Starting to get very complex lol.

 

I have on stand along loan at the start then a new loan say A, which was paid off early by loan B, paid off by loan c, paid off by loan d.

D should have been paid off by loan E, but they cocked up and didn't take out the settlement before paying us the money and sadly with our overdraft (and the fact it took them about 2 months before they let us know what had happened-well they didn't tell us just tried to take to lots of DD out and we got charged doh) So we ended up with loan F that paid off what was left of D and E. Loan F was a scarily high loan and even worse was a secured loan (god we were so stupid). This was settled early but by another secured loan with GE money (don't get me started lol).

 

Use the same principles above to deal with the rollover of loan D into loan F an the rollover of loan E into loan F

 

Then finally a few years later we get a further loan which didn't pay any others off and ran its course to be paid in full at the end of its term (so at least this was an easy calc rofl).

 

I have no problems with the figures or the spreadsheets (thankyou ims ). But its the method I need to get clear on so would appreciate any help.

 

Ali x

 

As all of your loans are connected (Apart from the first one), you put them all on one spreadsheet. It would be a good idea to do a different sheet for the first loan as it was stand-alone and didn't impact on any of the others.

 

ims

[alibobsy]

OK think I have it ims. Will start working through the figures and get back to you if any questions pop up. One thing though can i check when you say you are not claiming @31.8% from 96 till now-does this mean it is only claimed till the date the loan was paid off?

 

Ali x

[dx100uk]

no.

 

put 'their' int rate out of your head as its already inc in the PPI you paid monthly.

thats the only figure you need.

once you know 'what' you paid PCM PPI

all you do is enter the date,amount, reason [columns A.B.C info]

for EACH payment.

 

dx

[ims21]

Hi ali

 

Like wot dx says.

 

I'm on line this evening so if/when you need help I am happy to help you work through it.

 

Regards

 

ims

[alibobsy]

Ahh got you, forgot this is a front loaded PPI rather than the credit cards I have been doing calcs for recently.

 

Will see if I can get a bit of time later on once the kids are in bed to start my calcs.

 

Will post back if I get stuck again. Many thanks for the help guys.

 

Ali x

[alibobsy]

Still working through the figures on these, so far using IMS's brill guide I am ok, thanks anyway guys and will post if any questions. Also finally got a response from my SAR to RBOS so will be doing another lot of calcs for them rofl. Still my a level maths is coming flooding back.

 

Ali x

[alibobsy]

OK well being this time of year and having 4 kids got caught up in sorting christmas, BTW merry crimbo and happy new years (with plenty of PPI payouts lol) to ev1.

 

Now want to get back to pushing the PPI claims. Got a couple of FOS submissions ready to go off, so will check them and get them posted ASAP and update my relavent threads.

Need to finish off the calcs for my black horse loans-almost done to send off claims for the bulk of my loans.

 

Meanwhile got a letter today asking why I hadn't accepted their offer on loan number xxxxxxxxxx. When I looked I realised this was one of the later "stand alone" loans that I had done a complaint about before realising I needed a SAR. Funny how they rejected one loan as miss sold which they state cannot be sent to the FOS because of the dates, but the later loan miss sold on eactly the same reasons that can go to the FOS has been accepted. Never had the initial letter and had assumed it was covered in the rejection letter I got at the time with the other loan, so had been concentrating on getting claims ready for the rest so it could all go off to the FOS together.

 

Having phoned them they will get a new offer letter sent out, but they gave me the figure previously offered and its virtually the same as my calcs using the brill spreadsheets off here, so hurrah. One settled several more to go!

 

In a way I am glad the letter went astray as we probably would have gone a bit mad at christmas and spent more on the kids, where as I worked hard to use offers/survey points/vouchers to get the things the kids wanted without going OTT.

We had a frugal but very happy Christmas so now I know the money will go to good use elsewhere-we are trying to save up to convert our garage into a 4th bedroom for our eldest-teenage boy. So the eldest girl gets her own room and the 4 yr old will have the toddler in with her (and we will finally get our room back for ourselves).

 

Hopefully Oh will pick up a contract early in the new yr so any PPi can go towards that. A realatively modest sum will make a huge difference to us and the kids.

Thanks for all the help so far guys-will get the rest of my claims off and update as I hear.

 

Ali x

[gemspan]

I'm so happy for you! I've just started the long road to claiming back my mis-sold PPI. I did start a few years back but for some reason just let it slide. It wasn't until I was going through all my old statements etc., that I realised I could still claim this. Nothing ventured; nothing gained! It was definitely mis-sold to me. I'm delighted that you're getting settlement on one loan. Fantastic!

 

Gemspan

[alibobsy]

Still waiting the offer letter on this one .

Been on the phone over and over to them and each time the same old security questions, then the story so far, they ask have we moved since the loan was taken out (NO for the millionth time),can they recheck our address (for the millionth time) etc etc.

Ended up yesterday giving them 7 days to get the offer to me or I go to the FOS-numpties.

 

Ali x

[alibobsy]

Well still no offer letter so complaint went to FOS yesterday, so now they get charged for their delay idiots.

Still getting my head around the rollover PPI calcs on the earlier loans. Going to try to finish them this week and get the lot posted off to black horse.

Keep getting pulled away from finishing by the kids/OH/various animals/other PPI claims lol.

 

Ali x

[alibobsy]

Ok so decided to go back to my calculations.

BH were so sneaky.

Having looked through the bank statements and trawled through the SAR replies I finally got I worked out/remembered what happened.

We went in for a small loan ie 2k. They told us we couldn't have that because of our other financial commitments, but that they could do us a "secured" much larger loan and roll up our other cards onto that. This would take around a month soin the menwhile they could advance us the original 2k we wanted.

Of course to do that we had 2 separate loans less than one month apart and even on the 2k advance they stuck on 700 PPI! Can anyone beat 700 insurance for 12 days OMG.

Then the settlement (I have no breakdown from their rubbish SAR) I can only assume from the totals will have had this unused useless extra 700 rolled up into it.

Talk about money for nothing.

 

Anway the larger secured loan was sorted and off we went-then 3 month later they tried to take 2 payments one at the old rate for the supposedly settled loan.

We complained and they refunded the payment plus a charge we had had from the bank re the direct debit. We argued back and forth and after another 6 months we were forced by them into another even bigger secured loan and even more PPI as they were adamant the original loan still had outstanding finance on it-and I assume they kept banging interest on it.

 

Then the third loan for around 13k was paid for just over 2 years, but still had a huge settlement of almost 12k (we stupidly got a second mortgage to clear all our debts at this stage from elsewhere).

 

Talk about us being conned, down to their mistake we ended up with extra interest and loads more PPI (and I assume non of these were fully refunded when they rolled over into the next loan) total gits. They manage to take us from an intent to have a 2k loan to pay for a car repair so we could get to work to signing away a chunk of our house-money we are still paying to another bank.

 

Ali x

Edited January 27, 2012 by alibobsy

[dx100uk]

did your sar include the credit cards?

 

because, realistically here, if you've got penalty charges and ppi on those, you can also 'roll' that in as it would be linked!

 

you ar in for a serious windfall.

[alibobsy]

Not sure what you mean DX all the cards were with other companies and we are in the process of reclaiming PPI/charges etc against them as well-still trawling through paperwork finding old ref numbers and documents lol.

 

TBH Black horses SAR responses are terrible. We had to chase and chase and it took months to sort and I still am missing some statements and the ealiest loan details. I have enough info from my records and the details they have sent to do a claim though-bet they never thought someone would have 15 years of bank statements eh lol.

 

Ali x

[dx100uk]

i've got mine from 1982!

 

anyhow

 

what i am trying to pointout is that the recommended refinance from all cards would have charged you int and ppi on the int and ppi from those cards too.

shame they are a diff group?

as you could roll them in to all this if they were

 

dx

[alibobsy]

Ah I see what you are getting at. No the cards were all with other lenders,but am in the process of claiming against them all.

The black horse loans ran one into the other so lots of ppi rolling over and over, not finished all the calcs yet but looking good, now if I can only get them to pay up lol.

 

Ali x

[alibobsy]

Finally got the letter regarding the offer on the later stand alone loan they said had been sent 3 times. Sent off the reply on Sat so will see when it finally turns up.

Rest of the claims are almost done, done the calcs and am finishing off the other papers then it will be a trip to the PO to send-going to need a big envelope lol.

 

Ali x

[alibobsy]

Finally got the cheque for the stand alone loan they accepted hurrah.

Will see what they say about the others.

 

One down so to speak hurrah!

 

Will do a donation once the cheque clears-brill site.

 

Ali x

[alibobsy]

Ok finally got the big pile of papers sent off for the rest of the loans reclaiming, took a while to do all the bits of rollover ppi calcs. hard to concentrate with 4 kids running around lol. Posted it last week so will await their response.

 

Ali x