Council Tax Benefit Claim

[im4347]

Hi

 

I need some urgent advice regarding my Council Tax Benefit, I receive Council Tax Benefit as I am on Working Tax Credits as I am in midst of setting up my own business, not trading at the moment. The only business expenses are BT bills and Broadband as I work from home and my business is mainly online. Due to the problems with banks/credit cards, I only have a basic bank account, therefore, my direct debits go through my brother's account. Recently, The Council asked for my expenses, which I provided, now they want to see my brother's bank statements as proof! My brother isn't too happy about disclosing his personal statements which has left me in a situation.

 

Are they allowed to ask for someone else's statements? What are the consumer rights regarding this?

 

I need to get back to the Council as soon as possible, as they cancelled my claim yesterday and sent me a revised bill for the rest of the year! I need urgent help to get my claim back on track as I cannot afford to pay it!!

 

Any advice would be highly appreciated.

 

IM

[Life-Goes-On]

The council wants to see your expenses, it's up to you to let them see them. (It's not their problem you can't show them)

 

EDIT The council aren't asking to see someone else's statements

they are asking to see your statements

Edited June 21, 2011 by Life-Goes-On

[im4347]

Hi Life-Goes-On

 

Thanks for replying. The Council is clearly asking for my 'brother's' Bank Statements as proof, as my Direct Debits go from his Bank Account. My brother is helping me out financially until I start trading. I have provided all other info requested by the Council, i.e, income & expenditure, receipts and Bills for the Business.

 

IM

[morsy]

The council can ask for the bank statements and what ever else it deems necessary to process your claim.

 

As they have stopped your claim it is up to you to provide what they require. without it your claim will stay closed.

 

If they suspect any wrong doing (not that I am suggesting there is) they can get hold of the bank statements under there investigating powers.

 

Many basic bank accounts allow DD and SO these days

[Life-Goes-On]

The council are asking for proof so they need to see your statements to confirm your figures.

As far as the council are concerned they don't care if it's your brothers account. To them if it contains your trasactions, then the statement of those transactions is yours.

 

EDIT

Could you get your brother to black out his transactions just leaving yours, and would council accept that?

[ErikaPNP]

There are two potential answers to this one.

 

They are entitled to ask for any information which they reasonably require in order to assess a claim. If the claimant does not produce that information within the time limit provided (usually one month), the benefit assessor is entitled to make an adverse inference and cancel/refuse the claim.

 

They should not however ask for information which is unreasonable. So, if you have submitted sufficient evidence in regard to your expenses and they do not require additional information to assess your entitlement, you could argue that the request is an unreasonable one.

 

My assumption would be that they want to ensure that the money paid into a third party's account is being paid out again for a legitimate business expense of the claimant's, and that the account is not being used to try and evade detection of additional income/capital belonging to the claimant.

[Life-Goes-On]

TBH I couldn't see asking for proof is unreasonable.

[honeybee13]

TBH I couldn't see asking for proof is unreasonable.

 

I have to say I agree. If you want to claim publicly funded money, you need to be able to prove your finances. It's not the council's fault if you decide to use a relative's bank account to make your transactions.

 

My best, HB

[ErikaPNP]

TBH I couldn't see asking for proof is unreasonable.

 

Asking for proof is not unreasonable. What can be unreasonable is asking for proof when there is already sufficient proof and the proof they are asking for in addition would be unlikely to make a difference to the claim.

[Life-Goes-On]

If you say you can't supply any info they request, then the smoke alarms will go off, even if there isn't a fire.

 

EDIT

I get your point, Erika, but can't see how asking for bank statements to corroborate other info could be seen as unreasonable.

Edited June 21, 2011 by Life-Goes-On

[im4347]

Hi all thanks for replying.

 

They are entitled to ask for any information which they reasonably require in order to assess a claim. If the claimant does not produce that information within the time limit provided (usually one month), the benefit assessor is entitled to make an adverse inference and cancel/refuse the claim.

 

They should not however ask for information which is unreasonable. So, if you have submitted sufficient evidence in regard to your expenses and they do not require additional information to assess your entitlement, you could argue that the request is an unreasonable one.

 

My assumption would be that they want to ensure that the money paid into a third party's account is being paid out again for a legitimate business expense of the claimant's, and that the account is not being used to try and evade detection of additional income/capital belonging to the claimant.

 

 

The Council gave me 14 days to provide my brother's statements, to date I have provided them with the original BT Bills and Broadband Bills for the months requested, along with my bank account statements which has now been upgraded to a DD facility account, the Council are fully aware of this, but they require proof from the account the DDs are paid out.

 

The main issue here is that my brother is the one who does not wish to disclose his bank statements, I needed to know his legal rights in this matter.

 

It was cheaper for me to set up DDs than pay over the counter as I am on working tax credits and my bank account during thiis period did not allow this facility, so I had no choice but to save some money and pay via my brother's account.

 

IM

[honeybee13]

Hello again. I guess the council may be looking for a paper trail. Can you prove that the BT and Broadband bills were paid without your brother's bank statements? Playing devil's advocate for a minute, a request for payment doesn't prove that the bill was settled, if you see what I mean.

 

My best, HB

[ErikaPNP]

If you say you can't supply any info they request, then the smoke alarms will go off, even if there isn't a fire.

 

Of course they will. But that does not negate the right stipulated within article 8. The request must be reasonable and necessary.

 

Example: I submit a claim to Council Tax Benefit on the grounds of low income. I claim the childcare element of tax credit and let's say I pay my childminder by cash. Childcare costs are decuctible from CTB and I produce evidence of my CTC award, my childcare contract, my bank statements showing the same sum being taken out weekly for childcare and invoices from my childminder which correspond with the sums taken out of my account weekly. Insisting on my obtaining and sending them the childminder's accounts to ensure that the money I am taking out of my account is being paid to her would be an unreasonable and unesseccery request as the information already submitted is sufficient in terms of satisfying the evidential requirements.

[ErikaPNP]

The main issue here is that my brother is the one who does not wish to disclose his bank statements, I needed to know his legal rights in this matter.

 

 

IM

 

His legal right is not to make his bank statements available if he chooses not to do so. The council's legal right is to cancel your claim if you cannot produce evidence which is reasonably required in order to assess your entitlement.

[Life-Goes-On]

Of course they will. But that does not negate the right stipulated within article 8. The request must be reasonable and necessary.

 

Example: I submit a claim to Council Tax Benefit on the grounds of low income. I claim the childcare element of tax credit and let's say I pay my childminder by cash. Childcare costs are decuctible from CTB and I produce evidence of my CTC award, my childcare contract, my bank statements showing the same sum being taken out weekly for childcare and invoices from my childminder which correspond with the sums taken out of my account weekly. Insisting on my obtaining and sending them the childminder's accounts to ensure that the money I am taking out of my account is being paid to her would be an unreasonable and unesseccery request as the information already submitted is sufficient in terms of satisfying the evidential requirements.

 

Thanks for the example.

 

You're a great asset to this site Erika.

[im4347]

Hi

 

The BT & Broadband Bills I provided the council clearly show that the bills have been paid as they are on a monthly basis, and the bills reflect this too, as it states that the amount will be taken via DD on or around xy date, then the following month the new bill shows that the last bill was paid and this is your new bill etc. I have provided the last 3 months to them for each Company.

 

IM

[ErikaPNP]

Blah - schoolgirl error. Childcare costs are not deductible from CTB, they are deductible expenses when considering CTB. I'm only human. Article 8, human. Geddit?!

 

I really need to get out more, don't I...

 

im4347, could it be that what they are trying to establish perhaps is that you are paying money into your brothers account for the bills, and that he is not paying for them himself to help you out? Regular assistance from family members like this can be taken as additional income. They may also want to see that the money you place is his account is actually for paying the bills you stated and not money you are helping him out with. Perhaps they are concerned that you have another account for the DD's and are trying to hide it? Not suggesting you are of course but these are the kinds of things that raise questions:

 

Claimant states they only have one account which is a basic account with no D/D facility. Claimant then produces bills which shows they are paid by D/D. Council wonders how a claimant can pay bills by D/D when the only declared account has no D/D facility and concludes that it is possible that there is another account that the claimant has failed to declare. They ask claimant about this, claimant states that the bills are paid from a third party's account who is not connected to the business but for which the claimant provides the funds. Council makes a reasonable request for evidence of this. Claimant is unable to provide it, stating that the third party will not produce their statements to them for the council. The council's reasoning would probably be along the lines that the third party has allowed use of their bank account to help claimant out but refuses to produce statements, even knowing that this will have an adverse affect on the person they are trying to help, which could in turn see the person they are trying to help suffer. They have to weigh up whether or not that seems likely. The council is entitled to draw an inference from non production of information to support the claim, and can cancel it.

 

It's unlikely this example sequence of events mirrors yours exactly but it shows what they are trying to acheive and along what lines they think.