Shelley v Associates (Citi)Judgment awarded but Citi apply for S/A ***ONGOING***

[Shelley181146]

Thanks Martin,

 

I could kick myself because I spend half my life on this website scrolling round different forums to gain as much information as possible.

 

They returned my postal order so I guess the 40 days starts again?

 

You raise a valid point with regards to the selling of the acct to CQ but how do we stand if we have been paying them anyway? Is that not accepting the debt? We'll never live long enough to repay it at the minimal rate we are at the moment because of the huge rate of interest they've charged.

 

I will be interested in the documents when they do arrive because we were paying for PPI but they did not pay out on the claim. I suspect they will not send PPI information other than the charges on each statement will they?

 

Shelley

[MARTIN3030]

Hi Shelley,

Yes if they have returned the payment,then unfortunately you have to start again.

However this may not be as bad as it first seems,since it gives opportunity to ask for those other things that you may have ommitted first time.

I can let you have a copy of an exhaustive request which should force full compliance.

 

Insofar as your liability and acknowledgement of the amounts at issue,there are ways around this under the limitation act.

Basically this means that if you discover any material facts now or in the future which would have made a difference in respect of you making any repayments,or else making an agreements,then by virtue of that those payments that you made would have been made by mistake,or under mistaken belief that you were legitimately obliged to pay them.

 

Can you give some details about the claim-have you a thread on this ?

 

I dont know what PPI you were paying but in the earlier years,it was supposedly run through CPS-Card Protection Services.

This was usually taken at different statement periods.

It was also automatically run on after each 12 month period.

Can you advise as to what appeared on your statements,and if you did request repayment and how much.

[Shelley181146]

Hi Martin,

 

I would very much appreciate a copy of your template to force compliance. Financially we are not in a good place right now and I expect Citi will drag their feet at all these claims.

 

The statements I do have show an item called ' Cardholder Repayment Protection' which was charged on a monthly basis. I don't have the original document to say what it would cover but they didn't pay out when my husband was seriously ill (this was his card) and at that time I just assumed he wasn't covered. We were going through a rough time with our business closing down due to his health and I assumed they were right.

 

Huge appreciation,

Shelley

[MARTIN3030]

Ah ok understand now.

Ok I will sort you a template and tweak it to include info on this.

[MARTIN3030]

Hi Shelley-check your pmb.

 

I have considered the Notice of Assignment,and think they may well say this is a CCA request and therefore subject to the £1 fee.

Therefore I suggest sending the additional Postal order for £1 which can be included with the other and the DSAR.

Can I ask where you sent your last request and where the reply came back from ?

Citi have a habit of giving out PO box numbers and different addresses,which can often mean them saying they had to re-route it etc.

I will post up the address that you should be using.

Read through the temp and let me know you understand all.

[MARTIN3030]

Data Controller: CITIFINANCIAL EUROPE PLC

CITIGROUP CENTRE

33 CANADA SQUARE

LONDON

E14 5LB

[Shelley181146]

Is it legal for CapQuest to charge interest at the same rate or lesser as the oc once they have purchased the debt?

 

The original debt when they purchased it back in 2005 was £2,619.65 and now they advise us it's in excess of £4K - this will never be paid off at the rate currently being paid.

 

I am taking the oc to task over unlawful charges and PPI and will eventually offer CQ a F&F settlement once I have confirmed its an enforceable debt.........

 

Your comments on the interest would be much appreciated.

 

Shelley

[postggj]

Has crappyquest bought the debt by absolute assignment,

 

by the looks of it they have as its 2005

 

was the account terminated by the original creditor prior to sale to crappy quest and

 

does the t&c of the original agreement allow interest to be charged post sale, that i very much doubt

 

a dca buys all the rights and duties when an account is sold but the balance should remain the same as its already been terminated prior to sale

 

have you acknowledged the account with crappy quest by either a letter or payment, not a phone call

[Shelley181146]

It's a little complicated but briefly;

Our business failed back in 2004 and we had been payin g PPI but when my husband got ill they didn't pay out. Fell behind with repayments and they 'allegedly' sold the debt. I have SAR'd the oc and await the informationitemising the data I require.

 

We were in such a mess back then what with the business debts, my husband's ill health, moving house it was overwhelming what we had to sort out so we have been paying a nominal amount which has been withdrawn since December 2009 and put the account in dispute through the DCA and they write advising that as a gesture of goodwill, they have frozen all future interest!

 

I thought I had read somewhere on here that they are not allowed to add interest but I can't locate it now.

 

What's your thoughts on this please?

 

Shelley

[Shelley181146]

I have received a bundle from Citi which includes copy statements, a breakdown of abbreviations and a computer print out of the application form information. The covering letter which I have scanned in but they have not provided copies of T&C's because this falls outside the definition of 'personal data held for the purposes of Data Protection Act 1998 and similarly, s.7 (1) © only requires them to provide a copy of the information constituting any personal data,not the actual document on which the personal data is recorded!

 

There are a few points I wish to raise here;

1) The data (albeit from a print out) clearly shows that PPI was requested

2) The data also clearly shows that my OH was retired at the time of application

3) If retired folk are not eligible to claim, why take the premiums?

4) Statements clearly show that PPI was being charged for

5) Copy letters (from us) advising of OH's ill health and that we had moved address to licensed premises

6) The final copy statement also shows that the account was sold on for £550 to ********

 

Citi were advised of all change of addresses, the later two of which were public houses - Yes, at the time of application my OH was retired but when we moved into our own licensed premises he became employed - should we have advised Citi at that time? I'm not aware that it is a condition that you advise your creditor if you change your employment status!

 

I believe I have a good case to reclaim the PPI premiums and I will certainly be claiming the unfair charges but do I need any other documents to prove any of this?

 

Do I send them my spreadsheet of calculations or just total amounts within a letter and how long should I give them to respond?

 

Does anyone have recent experience/knowledge of how long this might take to settle?

 

Shelley

Edited May 25, 2011 by Shelley181146
Scanned document

[MARTIN3030]

I have received a bundle from Citi which includes copy statements, a breakdown of abbreviations and a computer print out of the application form information. The covering letter which I have scanned in but they have not provided copies of T&C's because this falls outside the definition of 'personal data held for the purposes of Data Protection Act 1998 and similarly, s.7 (1) © only requires them to provide a copy of the information constituting any personal data,not the actual document on which the personal data is recorded!

 

Ok then you can get this by doing a request under CCA=there is a fee of £1 required.

 

There are a few points I wish to raise here;

1) The data (albeit from a print out) clearly shows that PPI was requested

2) The data also clearly shows that my OH was retired at the time of application

3) If retired folk are not eligible to claim, why take the premiums?

4) Statements clearly show that PPI was being charged for

5) Copy letters (from us) advising of OH's ill health and that we had moved address to licensed premises

6) The final copy statement also shows that the account was sold on for £550 to ********

 

Citi were advised of all change of addresses, the later two of which were public houses - Yes, at the time of application my OH was retired but when we moved into our own licensed premises he became employed - should we have advised Citi at that time? I'm not aware that it is a condition that you advise your creditor if you change your employment status!

 

I believe I have a good case to reclaim the PPI premiums and I will certainly be claiming the unfair charges but do I need any other documents to prove any of this?

Yes I would agree that you do have recourse to claim the PPI charges.

 

Do I send them my spreadsheet of calculations or just total amounts within a letter and how long should I give them to respond?

A Total amount will do from xxx to xxx.-dont forget interest.

Their systems are geared up to calculate all these in any case.

Give them 14 days to respond that either they will be refunding them,or else to give you a final response.

My guess is that they will try to drag things out.

Does anyone have recent experience/knowledge of how long this might take to settle?

Citi are not known for speed.In fact they are famous here for making hedgehogs look fast.

 

[Shelley181146]

Martin, Hi,

 

Wow! I didn't expect a response that quick, thank you.

 

I pressume I should do the CCA request first before claiming unfair charges and PPI or does it not matter if they run together?

 

Shelley

[MARTIN3030]

No it does not matter.

You can run the 2 together-as long as its not more than 5k since it would expose you to costs by taking it out of small claims.

[Shelley181146]

No it does not matter.

You can run the 2 together-as long as its not more than 5k since it would expose you to costs by taking it out of small claims.

 

To my calculations when adding unfair charges to the PPI payments, plus interest, it will take it over 5K. How can I get around this?

 

Should I deal with PPI first and when that's settled, go for the jugglar and claim the unfair charges?

[MARTIN3030]

Ah you are ok for up to 5k -interest will not count in the threshold.

[Shelley181146]

Oh, that's brilliant then, thank you.

 

I think it is also time for me to be looking at OH's credit report to see what is recorded at the minute because now I have received evidence of how much the DCA paid for the debt, I can work on getting rid of them in the same process.

 

Huge thanks Martin.

 

Regards

Shelley

[MARTIN3030]

And dont let them kid you that they would need to repay any refunds to the DCA who were assigned the account-they tried this one in 2008.

They obv thought we were born yesterday.

[Shelley181146]

And dont let them kid you that they would need to repay any refunds to the DCA who were assigned the account-they tried this one in 2008.

They obv thought we were born yesterday.

 

OMG! Can they do that? How do we get around that one?

[MARTIN3030]

Well there is nothing in the original agreement which provides for this.

Once the account is closed,then the agreement is effectively ended.

They cannot vary terms of an agreement that has ended.

[MARTIN3030]

Actually they got up to all sorts of stunts-but were unaware for some time that we were sharing info in a secret thread.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?35411-itiC....Read-about-some-of-Citis-legendary-stunts-and-shockers.

[Shelley181146]

Sar documents received. Only computer print out of application form information together with explanation of abbreviations which does confirm that OH declared being retired but wanted PPI. No information regarding 'pre-existing medical conditions' and PPI was charged for on each monthly statement. However, letters to Citi when he was taken ill prove we had advised them of his illness but no correspondence in Sar bundle to clarify their response. They didn't pay out on the claim so I will be writing for refund of those premiums plus interest.

 

What I would like to know is does anyone have any suggestions as to how I might write a letter to them wording it to ensure they do not pay any refund to DCAand that I want the refund payable to my OH? I have found the template letter in library but I want to ensure I get a clause put in it.

 

I had CCA Capquest and they have failed to reply so I have followed that up with a 'fail to respond' letter r/d so we'll see what happens.

 

Shelley

[Shelley181146]

Ha! Capquest replied today. They have received my reminder for CCA and have now passed my letter onto the Compliance Team!!!

 

What's the next stage? They have already far exceeded the 12+2days....................

[Shelley181146]

My OH had an Associates card which is now Citicard. Although retired at the time of application when I became self employed, I 'employed my OH' part time. However due to ill health the business folded and Citicard were advised but ignored our correspondence and put the account into hands of DCA 'CapQuest' even though PPI was in place and had been paid for.

 

We'd lost our home as it was part of the business and had to move a few times whilst trying to find suitable property for OH's lack of mobility, keeping Citicard informed at all times of the change of addresses. CapQuest have virtually quadruppled the interest on the account and we have sent CCA request to CapQuest and Sar'd Citi.

 

We have recently 'finally' received replies from both parties and we have submitted his claim ofr unfair charges together with PPI refund request and await their reply.

 

CapQuest have sent two reconstituted agreements and have quoted the Carey v HSBC case saying they do not have to provide the original true signed copy of agreement. Also, they have said that if Citi feel a refund of premiums is a possibility then it is up to my OH as to whether he chooses to pay off the debt with CapQuest.

 

I have two thoughts regarding this matter and they are;

 

(1) If PPI was being paid and in place but its terms were not implemented by the insurance company do we have another case to claim against and if so, how do we go about it? Do we write to the insurance company direct (Cumberland Insurance Limited). The reconstituted agreemenst state "Any benefits paid by the insurer will be paid to us and will be credited at our discretion to your account". Cumberland Insurance are an affiliated company of Citi. So as they didn't pay out on the PPI claim, in my eyes they have simple stole the premiums and then gone on to exacerbate the interest when the account has fallen into default.

(2) Having only received reconstituted agreements where should we go from here? What can CapQuest do to enforce this agreement? The debt has fallen off my OH's credit file but he is seriously ill and worries over the slightest of things. Does this have to be repaid? They have been receiving nominal amounts on a regular monthly basis since 07.

 

As we know exactly how much CapQuest paid for the account, we were thinking of offering a small payment in F&F settlement once we had received the refunds.

 

Any comments please?

 

Shelley

[ims21]

Hi Shelley

 

Reconstituted agreements are now being deemed as satisfactory by judges following cases already heard. I wouldn't be going down the un-en route on this basis.

 

You should be claiming compound interest on this card's ppi up to the date of your claim. Had the insurance paid out at the time you wanted, you would have deducted that payout amount from your final claim figure to give you a net claim.

 

When you requested help via the ppi policy, did you get anything in writing as to why they didn't pay out, or indeed put anything in writing making the claim under the policy?

 

ims

Edited June 8, 2011 by ims21
Terrible spelling again!

[Shelley181146]

Hi ims,

 

Thank you for your reply.

 

I have recently submitted my claim for unfair charges together with PPI premiums but I have received a response saying;

"After a full review of your account, I confirm that there have been no premiums applied to your account in the six years prior to the date of receipt of your complaint. As it is the policy of Citi not to refund premiums that were applied more than six years prior to this date, we are unable to uphold your complaint and it has now been closed".

 

They then go on with the usual blah, blah about having six months from the date of this letter to exercise my right to refer my complaint to the Fos.

 

However, as I sent our correspondence in seperate envelopes I expect a further reply with regards to the unfair charges. Not sure if that will read the same schpiel?

 

The original documentation when advising COA/ill health etc are on a memory stick and I am trying to locate it to jog my memory as to what was sent. However, within the SAR documents they have enclosed a few copies of our correspondence which clearly advises them of my OH's ill health and that we could not continue with the d/d's which were in force at that time due to a reduction in income. To be fair, when they didn't send claim forms out we assumed that he wasn't covered!

 

Is the six year time limit they refer to incorrect? I was under the impression that it was six years from the time I realised I had been mis-sold? What do you think is my next course of action?

 

I do expect it to be a lengthy process, it's just knowing the route to go down and in what order etc.

 

Cheers

Shelley